From 3WyOySwsJBnwqzpjfgjwljslrfnq.htrqtogfslttlqjlwtzux.htr@groups.bounces.google.com Tue Mar 30 09:14:44 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3WyOySwsJBnwqzpjfgjwljslrfnq.htrqtogfslttlqjlwtzux.htr@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nwe5Q-0003w7-CY for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:14:44 -0700 Received: by vws3 with SMTP id 3sf4829648vws.16 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:14:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=WqzL8ajxOYbrmvZ+ZUPJLfOJQEzQlcHcjU9wr8o6Nks=; b=Co9VCFvLDWZcRt8eScjpt6/mi3qsqpTJZhdUNNR4H3brTN7WGNDpwGn/jLfkbsc02A RflpYFJMoY+ovxxTIsMgwz5eACPDtuccd5RJCfLMubbEAEgWfDJzHSnFy10HZsH+ibF3 aYgFGkEcqBIlZ8jh1zAY2XjM/nJyde5pY4E14= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=MblZYp7RaQJMrsj5zrXMS7lne/y5n2tjj2SyF/45DO5wNTG1kxXCEZqeTX2Y/mTH1b CZdkDrus4UigvcEE5QkjETGxNnCNnGjABwTfDhejgIf647Fjz+MmK9WZh3O2PVhZW/z0 lQHY332kdwbKbLQvFrfFIQpCSrzSj0TA4EBKU= Received: by 10.220.124.66 with SMTP id t2mr663388vcr.33.1269965659055; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:14:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.79.3 with SMTP id n3ls1874987vck.3.p; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.66.105 with SMTP id m41mr1587377vci.23.1269965657991; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.66.105 with SMTP id m41mr1587376vci.23.1269965657948; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 34si13711530vws.3.2010.03.30.09.14.16; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:14:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.44; Received: by mail-vw0-f44.google.com with SMTP id 9so789291vws.17 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:14:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.97.206 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:14:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <23298cb41003300716o6cd32a2bu6578ae37933c3488@mail.gmail.com> References: <4BB0D4DF.2070501@gmail.com> <8EE07369-765A-49AB-AEC4-1DEC1A904C37@gmail.com> <20100330090253.GG3000@nvg.org> <59C6A282-0F28-4016-98C7-907FBD3C4379@gmail.com> <4BB20330.6030403@gmail.com> <5715b9301003300703h3a6a3d56t55d59cc18bd01d46@mail.gmail.com> <23298cb41003300716o6cd32a2bu6578ae37933c3488@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:14:16 -0400 Received: by 10.220.122.28 with SMTP id j28mr3846126vcr.167.1269965656593; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:14:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5715b9301003300914x6fb052e2qb56fd3cb9229de61@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/db037f8bbb4ce0a5 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016369c8f9bd69699048306ebcb --0016369c8f9bd69699048306ebcb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sorry, I should have been clearer. This is what it feels like for me. I like the way lojban looks now (i.e. in lo nu binxo) and my preference will be for that style, but that's preference. On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 10:16 AM, Remo Dentato wrote: > On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> And I still don't understand what you stand to gain from changing things >> to make them suit your tastes. [...] I don't mean to sound mean, but it >> kind of sounds like someone coming over to my house and drawing mustaches on >> all the art on my walls because "it's more common for males from this period >> to have mustaches, it looks more appealing to me, and because I can". >> >> > I don't think it's a fair representation, Luke. I see this as a valuable > effort to make lojban easier to read. The language is already difficult in > itself that I can't understand why there's the need of making it difficult > to read. > > Yes, with time people will get used to the way Lojban is written but I > can't see why there must be an initial barrier on this aspect too. > > And let me add another comment. I do agree that Lojban does not *need* > many formatting rules since it is formally specified by its grammar but you > could use the same argument the C programs. > > I would feel really sorry for anyone that had to maintain a big C source > code base that makes no use of good formatting rules. There are studies and > experiments that shows that typography and formatting have a huge impact on > the comprehension of source code and I see lojban playing in the same league > of formal languages. > > remod > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016369c8f9bd69699048306ebcb Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, I should have been clearer. =A0This is what it feels like for me. = =A0I like the way lojban looks now (i.e. in lo nu binxo) and my preference = will be for that style, but that's preference.

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 10:16 AM, Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
And I still don't understand what you stand to gain from changing thing= s to make them suit your tastes.=A0 [...]=A0 I don't mean to sound mean= , but it kind of sounds like someone coming over to my house and drawing mu= staches on all the art on my walls because "it's more common for m= ales from this period to have mustaches, it looks more appealing to me, and= because I can".

=A0
I don't= think it's a fair representation, Luke.=A0 I see this as a valuable ef= fort to make lojban easier to read.=A0 The language is already difficult in= itself that I can't understand why there's the need of making it d= ifficult to read.

Yes, with time people will get used to the way Lojban is written but I = can't see why there must be an initial barrier on this aspect too.
<= br>And let me add another comment.=A0 I do agree that Lojban does not *need= * many formatting rules since it is formally specified by its grammar but y= ou could use the same argument the C programs.

I would feel really sorry for anyone that had to maintain a big C sourc= e code base that makes no use of good formatting rules. There are studies a= nd experiments that shows that typography and formatting have a huge impact= on the comprehension of source code and I see lojban playing in the same l= eague of formal languages.

remod


=A0

<= br>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--0016369c8f9bd69699048306ebcb--