From 3oi2ySwYHBs038Ax1w5tv.v75472ut6z77z4xzA7D8B.v75@groups.bounces.google.com Tue Mar 30 09:58:45 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3oi2ySwYHBs038Ax1w5tv.v75472ut6z77z4xzA7D8B.v75@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nwelt-0006iz-Jv for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:58:43 -0700 Received: by vws3 with SMTP id 3sf4939422vws.16 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:58:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:x-originating-ip:message-id :from:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xlje7XMmL8OaCM/FgrWe/rvm2ppytSXX+yMnYmcp9zU=; b=6wO1ANGafsGiSlULIulCd13JovKfiZvIb7nC9NyUsZ8Sps71gsHTq/VoRnWUbL8W59 Mxt/6wbDCke2IWYTnHz+ewNDcsRo2YD1dhKVM9ZggnRNWk7YLoeQHlZkQz+UbC5ZOwuA gG2Uah4j3oJ8pqDIvS7ySEFS1XHlgLMGXTF2Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-originating-ip:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=68l1lcnnaFgS0nEImbWZmP0RXtQVpRvFrxbyS1fEfd26Jd1ebvUIWJo1kP+LVMfxj8 K28oPu78olL1wntkCEAj591sI/1mA0MMnGa3XFOTzMAMIrtWnSKEWyk2gBqvHmALnqBs NJgSnP/YtKWzQ2s1PL4ZFrU+MK8x83S25QL0o= Received: by 10.220.127.15 with SMTP id e15mr241307vcs.23.1269968290857; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:58:10 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.174.133 with SMTP id t5ls2774821vcz.2.p; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:58:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.65.24 with SMTP id g24mr1645002vci.6.1269968288427; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:58:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.190.7 with SMTP id dg7mr486781ibb.23.1269964637423; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.190.7 with SMTP id dg7mr486780ibb.23.1269964637327; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kcout01.prserv.net (kcout01.prserv.net [12.154.55.31]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si831072iwn.1.2010.03.30.08.57.17; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: softfail (google.com: domain of transitioning kpreid@mac.com does not designate 12.154.55.31 as permitted sender) client-ip=12.154.55.31; Received: from [ipv6:::1] (linode.feoh.org[97.107.129.138]) by prserv.net (kcout01) with SMTP id <2010033015571620100hcg8ne> (Authid: usinet.kpreid); Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:57:17 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [97.107.129.138] Message-Id: <32A2435D-5119-409E-8CAD-E5F899C5AAF1@mac.com> From: Kevin Reid To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:57:14 -0400 References: <4BB0D4DF.2070501@gmail.com> <5715b9301003291146h66475c74off6625befee8fdf5@mail.gmail.com> <8EE07369-765A-49AB-AEC4-1DEC1A904C37@gmail.com> <20100330090253.GG3000@nvg.org> <59C6A282-0F28-4016-98C7-907FBD3C4379@gmail.com> <23298cb41003300332u6bde63fdk9f8b819fff7bf2ce@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1003300803m6caec9f7y7a66b3bf9b71009b@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=softfail (google.com: domain of transitioning kpreid@mac.com does not designate 12.154.55.31 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kpreid@mac.com X-Original-Sender: kpreid@mac.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/92562744f2dc2a06 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mar 30, 2010, at 11:34, Michael Everson wrote: >> The right-side, I can deal with most of it. There is one thing in =20 >> that example that is seriously grating, however. To use the first =20 >> sentence: "...gi'e zukte fi noda. I abuboi...." This is horrible. =20 >> Accepting your desire to capitalize for this example only, that =20 >> phrase should be "...gie' zukte fi noda .i Abuboi....". > > So you're treating .i like a danda, or | not belonging to either =20 > sentence? What do people think about that? I don't recall what the formal grammar has to say (if it does; the =20 grammar is constructed largely without regard to semantics but only =20 accept/reject), but for example, free modifiers (such as =93za'a=94) =20 attach to the construct whose =93head=94, shall we say, is the preceding = =20 word. In =93broda i za'a brode=94, the =93za'a=94 is considered to apply to= =20 the sentence =93brode=94, not =93broda=94. Therefore =93i=94 is associated = with =20 the *following* sentence, not the preceding ones. However, I almost agree with the notion of capitalizing that-after-=20 the-=93i=94, rather than the =93i=94 on *aesthetic* grounds, of not =20 capitalizing the same letter all the time. In the case of connectives, =93i Ja abuboi=94 feels very wrong to me, as = =20 opposed to =93I ja abuboi=94 or =93i ja Abuboi=94. (Note that this is written in the context of =93If we capitalize, where =20 do we put it=94, without necessarily approving of capitalization at all.) --=20 Kevin Reid --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.