From 3gC-ySwcJBq0RlRbahfTZNVY.PbZYbWONaTbbTYRTebhcf.PbZ@groups.bounces.google.com Tue Mar 30 10:06:37 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f160.google.com ([209.85.211.160]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3gC-ySwcJBq0RlRbahfTZNVY.PbZYbWONaTbbTYRTebhcf.PbZ@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nweta-0007ox-02 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:06:37 -0700 Received: by ywh32 with SMTP id 32sf9481109ywh.28 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:06:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=j388FADcvaosXSjeFMDX+nmM2pOFdX1J+UWMzHPx7cU=; b=34xS1QNkT5Ec2gLpFEIX2ABK/w1RECCbnvo41B0xHMscg0ZHCpFYrSCOK1UIRhfTrq Foa/h3+pSrIVf7lBDK0jYMP0ctWRX5dhfB3Pn+N6BVRETYz7a1HToGqPBkFP41nBzoi/ PV9qOFQPgdV3si1qL/yGi2Ly82XeVEw6j7Qvk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=FgLQSBa/6yweE42wtYuymRjIBzqwTObC4CTx01zblVfodNXnPmti+uf5bUCdoEEho+ sTlFB0RxeHKq4cQbxzZaU/ofh1NWA26lS2MDwkDEvQRyhDvUVGLkJr6voW7/mjJDpV94 3Yw6e8tlYulWUs/V2niArQhQQBIp1fzn6tRYI= Received: by 10.91.91.11 with SMTP id t11mr539522agl.28.1269968768775; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:06:08 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.2.70 with SMTP id 6ls1416688ebi.2.p; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.54.1 with SMTP id o1mr660035ebg.21.1269968767108; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.54.1 with SMTP id o1mr660034ebg.21.1269968767030; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ew0-f218.google.com (mail-ew0-f218.google.com [209.85.219.218]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 12si310857ewy.14.2010.03.30.10.06.05; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:06:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.218 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.218; Received: by mail-ew0-f218.google.com with SMTP id 10so991385ewy.12 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:06:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.2.209 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:06:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4BB0D4DF.2070501@gmail.com> <8EE07369-765A-49AB-AEC4-1DEC1A904C37@gmail.com> <20100330090253.GG3000@nvg.org> <59C6A282-0F28-4016-98C7-907FBD3C4379@gmail.com> <23298cb41003300332u6bde63fdk9f8b819fff7bf2ce@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1003300803m6caec9f7y7a66b3bf9b71009b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:06:04 -0600 Received: by 10.216.183.17 with SMTP id p17mr716893wem.133.1269968764460; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:06:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <702226df1003301006u11a3e653gf9015a2f75ed132c@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.218 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/d9fe37a664b23c4c Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64c06fc14e16e048307a575 --0016e64c06fc14e16e048307a575 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Michael Everson wrote: > On 30 Mar 2010, at 16:03, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > > Okay, I can deal with most of it. > > My gast is a bit flabbered to hear it! > > > I prefer the left example better. (Although I'd rather someone went in > with a fine-toothed comb and put those denpa bu in where they belong.) > > I get the impression that some people really like this and some people > don't. > If you're talking about the presence or absence of {.}, I highly doubt that anyone would object to it's *presence*, assuming that it is present consistently and correctly, and I *think* that those most likely to object to it's *adsence* would be the less proficient jbopre, such as myself. > > > The right-side, I can deal with most of it. There is one thing in that > example that is seriously grating, however. To use the first sentence: > "...gi'e zukte fi noda. I abuboi...." This is horrible. Accepting your > desire to capitalize for this example only, that phrase should be "...gie' > zukte fi noda .i Abuboi....". > > So you're treating .i like a danda, or | not belonging to either sentence? > What do people think about that? > Um, what? > > > {.i} is the Lojban word for the English period. > > I wouldn't say so. The full stop in Latin (Greek, Cyrillic, Armenian, etc.) > marks the *end* of a sentence. {.i} is a "sentence separator" (What is > Lojban, p. 66) which seems to be described as introducing a new sentence > whilst continuing a theme. But at the bottom of the page it states that {.i} > and {ni'o} "start a new sentence or paragraph". {.i} begins a new sentence, not ends an old one, I know this. {vau} is actually the Lojban word for the English period, however, {.i} is always required, in turn meaning {vau} rarely is. I was trying to indicate the simlarity between {.i} and ".", that being, they are always found at the point where one sentence ends and another begins. Functionally polar opposites, but optherwise exactly the same. > > If you're going to mark punctuation, I'd prefer you be consistent. For > example, "lu<<...>>li'u" but "(to...toi)"? The punctuation should be the > same, so "to(...)toi". > > I want to discuss this in terms of narrative structure in due course. Not > ready to do that yet. > > > I still don't like the capitalization. > > > > I think that a proficient jbopre, preferably Jorge, he being the author, > should go through your work and make sure that things such as what I've > pointed out are corrected, such as putting the {.} in the right place, and > preferably in all the places that {.} has been optionally removed. > > Ill be delighted to work with Jorge of course. > > Michael > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e64c06fc14e16e048307a575 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Michael Everson= <michael= .everson@gmail.com> wrote:
On 30 Mar 2010, at 16:03, Jonathan Jones wrote:

&g= t; Okay, I can deal with most of it.

My gast is a bit flabbere= d to hear it!

> I prefer the left example better. (Although I= 9;d rather someone went in with a fine-toothed comb and put those denpa bu = in where they belong.)

I get the impression that some people r= eally like this and some people don't.
=A0
If you're talking about the presence or absence of {.}, I highly d= oubt that anyone would object to it's presence, assuming that = it is present consistently and correctly, and I think that those m= ost likely to object to it's adsence would be the less profici= ent jbopre, such as myself.

> The right-side, I can deal with most of it. Ther= e is one thing in that example that is seriously grating, however. To use t= he first sentence: "...gi'e zukte fi noda. I abuboi...." This= is horrible. Accepting your desire to capitalize for this example only, th= at phrase should be "...gie' zukte fi noda .i Abuboi....".
So you're treating .i like a danda, or | not belonging to eit= her sentence? What do people think about that?
=A0
Um, what?

> {.i} is the Lojban word for the English period.<= br>
I wouldn't say so. The full stop in Latin (Greek, Cyrillic= , Armenian, etc.) marks the *end* of a sentence. {.i} is a "sentence s= eparator" (What is Lojban, p. 66) which seems to be described as intro= ducing a new sentence whilst continuing a theme. But at the bottom of the p= age it states that {.i} and {ni'o} "start a new sentence or paragr= aph".
=A0
{.i} begins a new sentence, not ends an old one, I know this. {vau} is= actually the Lojban word for the English period, however, {.i} is always r= equired, in turn meaning {vau} rarely is.
=A0
I was trying to indicate the simlarity between {.i} and ".",= that being, they are always found at the point where one sentence ends and= another begins. Functionally polar opposites, but optherwise exactly the s= ame.
=A0
> If you're going to mark punctuation, I'd pre= fer you be consistent. For example, "lu<<...>>li'u&quo= t; but "(to...toi)"? The punctuation should be the same, so "= ;to(...)toi".

I want to discuss this in terms of narrative structure in due cou= rse. Not ready to do that yet.

> I still don't like the capitalization.
&g= t;
> I think that a proficient jbopre, preferably Jorge, he being the= author, should go through your work and make sure that things such as what= I've pointed out are corrected, such as putting the {.} in the right p= lace, and preferably in all the places that {.} has been optionally removed= .

Ill be delighted to work with Jorge of course.

Michael

--
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For= more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?h= l=3Den.




--
mu'= o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu=

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