From 3nDqySwYHBtQAFH483C02.2ECBE910D6EE6B46HEKFI.2EC@groups.bounces.google.com Tue Mar 30 10:53:58 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f160.google.com ([209.85.211.160]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3nDqySwYHBtQAFH483C02.2ECBE910D6EE6B46HEKFI.2EC@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwfdR-000295-4V for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:53:57 -0700 Received: by ywh32 with SMTP id 32sf9517220ywh.28 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:53:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:x-originating-ip:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=3X4Xda9YfJHlw54gXZ9eUG8SZ7wqintAMt3hvQ/bfdg=; b=OUf7ZvjmonrtCQA4GJ0R3GeXQOg5qj64LHw7YfJekpW1eJE8Z4Cq0dRcVC8Fw/zujQ D+XzWgRi4XchXnYe6U2w2bKTQWMAQVvbrXZkiHhPG2A8E2Mm/TKld4Pu5om2HDfAgjgM P/eUTDsMh2YloQfnJobE3sKaPKvBBMvldQMbg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-originating-ip:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=yqPVLkpSRuTQ2/O3fSSVS+WY2uSb4jiQMv0pWUOewyXMCCiFmkBG5PatpFjwsXxLBk mozh16Ho1W3qvBtqK3sMDluU8qqaXn1KuU6kYu4XrWDzSIhd6y3I60y07BTjbAeI/Y9v 5t9mDZ/HJqdCeqoXz9WyBqWjP6ciN6ev23rcg= Received: by 10.150.161.1 with SMTP id j1mr364394ybe.20.1269971612046; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:53:32 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.204.223 with SMTP id fn31ls867071ibb.1.p; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:53:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.190.134 with SMTP id di6mr498177ibb.15.1269971610991; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.190.134 with SMTP id di6mr498176ibb.15.1269971610958; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kcout02.prserv.net (kcout02.prserv.net [12.154.55.32]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si848409iwn.1.2010.03.30.10.53.30; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: softfail (google.com: domain of transitioning kpreid@mac.com does not designate 12.154.55.32 as permitted sender) client-ip=12.154.55.32; Received: from 216-171-189-244.northland.net ([216.171.189.244]) by prserv.net (kcout02) with SMTP id <2010033017533020200e0ncae> (Authid: usinet.kpreid); Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:53:30 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [216.171.189.244] Message-Id: <009D3D10-8631-4E7E-943E-A64F9BA43478@mac.com> From: Kevin Reid To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Subject: Re: [lojban] Michael Everson, What Do You Want From Us? Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:53:29 -0400 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=softfail (google.com: domain of transitioning kpreid@mac.com does not designate 12.154.55.32 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kpreid@mac.com X-Original-Sender: kpreid@mac.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/b548fd0eaf4c6a85 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/f1f3c8971cfa76b0 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes On Mar 30, 2010, at 13:12, Matt Arnold wrote: > This seems like another case of it. We lack the power to stop you > publishing your book, so what has me confused is, why don't you? What > are you trying to achieve here? Do you want or need something from us? > Does it just give you some kind of gratification to apply a lot of > negative adjectives to Lojban? Or what? I object to your negative tone. These seem to me to be the essential elements of the situation. (I do not speak for Michael Everson, etc.) ---- * Michael Everson wants to publish versions of Alice, including a Lojban version. These versions are all in Latin script, and he wants them to *look nice*, and he considers traditional Latin typography-and- punctuation-etc. to be nice and the obvious way to do it. * Standard Lojban has rules about the use of punctuation, which conflict with the above. * Michael Everson wants to publish his Lojban Alice satisfying both his preferences and ours. Since there is a conflict, the discussion of the particular points will hopefully help determine a compromise which is not *UNNECESSARILY* offensive to either side. ---- Yes, Everson *can* publish without any input from us, but that doesn't mean he *should*. He's doing the polite thing and getting our input. Even if the Lojban community doesn't accept his work as being adequate Lojban, we at least know what his motives were. Even if Everson doesn't take our advice, he is at least more informed about the significance to Lojbanists of his choices; he can make choices which which are neutral to him and less irritating to us. Of course, a large portion of the discussion is bikeshed painting, or whatever you want to call it; but *stomping on the discussion is not the right answer*. -- Kevin Reid -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.