From 3qlmySwoJBgImcnkBrwvtc0cjqq.eqonqldcpiqqingitqwru.eqo@groups.bounces.google.com Tue Mar 30 13:06:29 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3qlmySwoJBgImcnkBrwvtc0cjqq.eqonqldcpiqqingitqwru.eqo@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nwhhg-00024A-KB for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:06:29 -0700 Received: by vws12 with SMTP id 12sf421376vws.16 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:06:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=VtRUT9JQS1vU3E5Agv4Z9mDtoYR6b2D6jGmf27qH8cc=; b=2ato/1mS2F0P+Hgqdq2eXuUDfiXxA87UPS9u9PlvKh7BGZQEPRZUGIUZQYOMM+zEmj mrD+WQNWAZ9N2wSEculbKHpbUyepDVKKsfpljsI9hpetaG/rlxh2aqUCH0c5rgIl2nDR z5kF/Me4VnWeV0BqICcTdon746Gw0hj8Z8/VI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Kq4e3DbJLyldBh/sGxkM2mCh+XHWsuNbAmOIcVC/OD1jLrnc9wE7+m4aMlA50Ykket CkJ3/j5wHg111YL0s6T5UWPRC6ExeZYvlDxz5Fn3Fb5ge3tPemwSC6lG3J4zXZDSL5d0 qUtGLF0BvQ7ZJ0NMULiyW9TkPMyCh/pGu/Yvk= Received: by 10.220.122.78 with SMTP id k14mr674329vcr.40.1269979562674; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:06:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.47.17 with SMTP id l17ls2787262vcf.5.p; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.165.195 with SMTP id j3mr52308vcy.25.1269979560868; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.165.195 with SMTP id j3mr52307vcy.25.1269979560833; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.118]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id 34si14196995vws.3.2010.03.30.13.06.00; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.118 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.118; Received: (qmail 66300 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Mar 2010 20:06:00 -0000 Message-ID: <79614.64421.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: _AAx7eMVM1mSWGdGtqEfMqoX_2wkGaaGKMvdr4SPB1uNoFZ xQmjTpyCOVqW.nCbw9CvdK0_KZeDPSyML4Eatr_SRo091san9jRlAPPTjHXz 3ij45Zyichm3C0aKgzBHvezJY5.v87GsWh922t7e16WLkNFnsb8352icViBu iX3IJ41aXhAbG876eTQTt6aoHwHJn2lCBop6TUD63igAIqvf2BidzGCtx5_m r9_bThKEfGyw.e0.hBTDJIxAEai505dVz.t2fZnyxDfI89LfsmFWyYxsfWVO yEiXzc7FxeGWXjpf6453jS4PmL5PZLEQTo1K7UDNInGUqrAyRBa8PF9k_ Received: from [71.14.73.129] by web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:06:00 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/324.3 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 References: <4BB0D4DF.2070501@gmail.com> <5715b9301003291146h66475c74off6625befee8fdf5@mail.gmail.com> <8EE07369-765A-49AB-AEC4-1DEC1A904C37@gmail.com> <20100330090253.GG3000@nvg.org> <59C6A282-0F28-4016-98C7-907FBD3C4379@gmail.com> <23298cb41003300332u6bde63fdk9f8b819fff7bf2ce@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1003300803m6caec9f7y7a66b3bf9b71009b@mail.gmail.com> <32A2435D-5119-409E-8CAD-E5F899C5AAF1@mac.com> <9E58473C-A8AC-464F-826D-E44470D7F15F@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:06:00 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: <9E58473C-A8AC-464F-826D-E44470D7F15F@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.118 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify) header.i=@yahoo.com X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/83c50450f0080b39 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Now that the petty bickering has died down a little and it seems likely tha= t a version of Alice in Lojban will appear, let me comment on the samples b= efore us. 1. Note please that '(,)i' does not mark the beginning of a new *sentence*= but of a new *bridi*, which may or may not be the same thing. In particul= ar, ijeks mark not new sentences but new clauses of a compound or complex s= entence. So they should have neither a punctuation period before them not = a capital letter. Whether they should have a comma or a semi or full colon= , I am less sure -- Victorian conventions were very different from modern = ones, for example (and British from American throughout). =20 More or less consequent on that, the repeated capitalized 'I' is distr= acting at best, muddling at worst, so I would capitalize the next word. But I would run the ijeks and similar items as single words, in keepin= g with their unitary function in the grammar (and no following capital). 2. Unless things have changed a lot, the occurrence of ',' is almost always= predictable. The use in texts was originally an aid to learning, to remin= d people to take a breath (or break). Somehow, it stuck and is now being t= outed as "standard orthography". Are the only pictures allowed in Lojban b= ooks to be those of Dick, Jane, Spot, and Fluffy? But there are some places where a pause is not so obvious, mainly IIRC= at the ends of names. To be sure, if the name is capitalized, then this i= s=20 predictable as well, even if the name is a purely Lojban phrase. In = short, a dotless text would be quite adequate and much nicer looking. I think punctuation periods are a bad idea, even when they would ma= rk the eventual end of a long complex or compound sentence, but in that pla= ce I=20 would not mind them much, just not after every sentence ('i', which is= much bigger than '.', is quite adequate. 3. As for capitalizing words that are not cmene but Lojban phrases, the ea= siest generally satisfactory way would seem to be to convert all the 'lo's = (but surely they all should have been 'le's) to 'la's. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.