From 3nmGySw8JBv0rnhmfjq.j0jwxtslrfnq.htrqtogfslttlqjlwtzux.htr@groups.bounces.google.com Tue Mar 30 13:40:26 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f196.google.com ([209.85.217.196]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3nmGySw8JBv0rnhmfjq.j0jwxtslrfnq.htrqtogfslttlqjlwtzux.htr@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwiEW-0005Qh-BZ for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:40:26 -0700 Received: by gxk20 with SMTP id 20sf17697459gxk.10 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:40:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:mime-version :subject:from:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=RWWlQGR145RlwWs7wELVtJgVxNakyENw18phV3+vQqo=; b=bXWSfXjDqPM0ddfMyHgu6LxAjLH/mwiv+hhUIHO0zYYbHWvG/Wy5xbvcNsD5xTyTnd UZJrUrbtJO8fK9YV3C6He9Os+Ski/WFyxkAH9KIoJTU7oTzJ69zgzq8wSliHNPHb27N/ nnymWEkCHA5HMiwG312kxL5PLNzh8vZJxjg+s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :message-id:references:to:x-mailer:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=R4n6Ixj3eREbATSRXIc/WY9z6QuOA51+2clST7eTjO4Q3Ucg2di8y32/3t804KqFXA GPJxoHjlBVmOUSkp4uTepXXfS87Z5uolxczuBig5oUTL3fi4QGAfMgFvHvajuAI8AQ1Y e7txsYf7nemh5tLFoWDgW+5SzrGh6juJ8LX3M= Received: by 10.91.185.15 with SMTP id m15mr46147agp.19.1269981598937; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:39:58 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.41.209 with SMTP id p17ls1328976ebe.1.p; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:39:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.58.202 with SMTP id i10mr692897ebh.0.1269981597987; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.58.202 with SMTP id i10mr692895ebh.0.1269981597957; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ew0-f214.google.com (mail-ew0-f214.google.com [209.85.219.214]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 17si350818ewy.11.2010.03.30.13.39.56; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of michael.everson@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.214 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.214; Received: by ewy6 with SMTP id 6so707976ewy.4 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.168.8 with SMTP id j8mr100694wel.192.1269981596682; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (murrisk2.westnet.ie [88.81.100.235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p10sm18701779gvf.22.2010.03.30.13.39.55 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1078) Subject: Re: [lojban] Michael Everson, What Do You Want From Us? From: Michael Everson In-Reply-To: <009D3D10-8631-4E7E-943E-A64F9BA43478@mac.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:39:54 +0100 Message-Id: References: <009D3D10-8631-4E7E-943E-A64F9BA43478@mac.com> To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1078) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of michael.everson@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.214 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=michael.everson@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: michael.everson@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/b548fd0eaf4c6a85 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/b56944f09f2836e5 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 30 Mar 2010, at 18:53, Kevin Reid wrote: > These seem to me to be the essential elements of the situation. (I do not= speak for Michael Everson, etc.) I do. ;-) > * Michael Everson wants to publish versions of Alice, including a Lojban = version. These versions are all in Latin script, and he wants them to *look= nice*, and he considers traditional Latin typography-and-punctuation-etc. = to be nice and the obvious way to do it. Exactly so. > * Standard Lojban has rules about the use of punctuation, which conflict = with the above. Yes, but it also has some options which allow for some choices. If acutes a= re used for stress, caps are unused and are free for other uses. Same goes = with dots. (The other uses are non-standard.) > * Michael Everson wants to publish his Lojban Alice satisfying both his p= references and ours. Since there is a conflict, the discussion of the parti= cular points will hopefully help determine a compromise which is not *UNNEC= ESSARILY* offensive to either side. It would be nice.=20 > Yes, Everson *can* publish without any input from us, but that doesn't me= an he *should*. He's doing the polite thing and getting our input. Thank you for saying so. I am pleased to see a fair bit of support, as well= as the middling support, and the grudging acknowledgement, and the out and= out rejection. What a diverse community! > Even if the Lojban community doesn't accept his work as being adequate Lo= jban, we at least know what his motives were. Even if Everson doesn't take = our advice, he is at least more informed about the significance to Lojbanis= ts of his choices; he can make choices which which are neutral to him and l= ess irritating to us. I guess I can make no promises. But I'm interested in possibilities. > Of course, a large portion of the discussion is bikeshed painting, or wha= tever you want to call it; but *stomping on the discussion is not the right= answer*. What is this bike-shed thing? (I parsed this as bi-kesh'd the first time I = saw it.)\ Michael --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.