From 352SySwwJBkoym55.ym55m3zsymux.o0yx0vnmzs00sxqs30614.o0y@groups.bounces.google.com Tue Mar 30 13:54:26 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <352SySwwJBkoym55.ym55m3zsymux.o0yx0vnmzs00sxqs30614.o0y@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwiS5-0006GU-AY for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:54:26 -0700 Received: by gwb1 with SMTP id 1sf10411048gwb.16 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:54:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xzSPlP8a1kY1W8XJd4V66nBtzUtZN1rKipQHEUrrLaI=; b=Uubkc/DNBXYpOaCFT08rbKpbA5ixeAescXShAQDt0sAKHcU0UuuCi9x4gbNeoWf2Q1 gE287TIlkDTTdzDulyA3EjXh14YapZwFEmZHxakjL7lG08bzwnv/GOatebkk6FFDEBhD XhBx/+JojkElvjjj5VDxDuqkPD63V9cfieSf8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=4uGXDdym/rb3a4PqOri2Jjuow8ij4gtwHO5wPP7FxU504BlfCY69NZK+JBFUCA28Tx wK81Aj4TIC+hPbCwwxLV5H6amKwk+bFQx0jHKTAQcEU6UEqHZ8cbzLMn6fqYoiihwznL 7BlmyAEOvG3VZby8GdzkJgTMGq7XFj3Fyb7wk= Received: by 10.91.90.12 with SMTP id s12mr49099agl.7.1269982439515; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:53:59 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.91.7 with SMTP id t7ls788257agl.1.p; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.1.40 with SMTP id 40mr8371628aga.9.1269982438333; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.1.40 with SMTP id 40mr8371625aga.9.1269982438287; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gx0-f227.google.com (mail-gx0-f227.google.com [209.85.217.227]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 25si95187yxe.2.2010.03.30.13.53.57; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of matt.mattarn@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.227 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.217.227; Received: by gxk27 with SMTP id 27so5062900gxk.1 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:53:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.196.12 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:53:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <009D3D10-8631-4E7E-943E-A64F9BA43478@mac.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:53:56 -0400 Received: by 10.101.158.6 with SMTP id k6mr1774716ano.172.1269982436935; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Michael Everson, What Do You Want From Us? From: Matt Arnold To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of matt.mattarn@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.227 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=matt.mattarn@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/b548fd0eaf4c6a85 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/3d3c65951955f535 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Let the discussion happen. I'm not stomping on it, I'm just trying to figure out who it relates to and why. In other words, whether it relates to me. I just want an answer to my question. "What do you want from us?" If the answer is "nothing", fine. Then I can mute the discussion and turn my attention elsewhere, in perfect contentment to let others discuss it.. -Eppcott On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Michael Everson wrote: > On 30 Mar 2010, at 18:53, Kevin Reid wrote: > >> These seem to me to be the essential elements of the situation. (I do no= t speak for Michael Everson, etc.) > > I do. ;-) > >> * Michael Everson wants to publish versions of Alice, including a Lojban= version. These versions are all in Latin script, and he wants them to *loo= k nice*, and he considers traditional Latin typography-and-punctuation-etc.= to be nice and the obvious way to do it. > > Exactly so. > >> * Standard Lojban has rules about the use of punctuation, which conflict= with the above. > > Yes, but it also has some options which allow for some choices. If acutes= are used for stress, caps are unused and are free for other uses. Same goe= s with dots. (The other uses are non-standard.) > >> * Michael Everson wants to publish his Lojban Alice satisfying both his = preferences and ours. Since there is a conflict, the discussion of the part= icular points will hopefully help determine a compromise which is not *UNNE= CESSARILY* offensive to either side. > > It would be nice. > >> Yes, Everson *can* publish without any input from us, but that doesn't m= ean he *should*. He's doing the polite thing and getting our input. > > Thank you for saying so. I am pleased to see a fair bit of support, as we= ll as the middling support, and the grudging acknowledgement, and the out a= nd out rejection. What a diverse community! > >> Even if the Lojban community doesn't accept his work as being adequate L= ojban, we at least know what his motives were. Even if Everson doesn't take= our advice, he is at least more informed about the significance to Lojbani= sts of his choices; he can make choices which which are neutral to him and = less irritating to us. > > I guess I can make no promises. But I'm interested in possibilities. > >> Of course, a large portion of the discussion is bikeshed painting, or wh= atever you want to call it; but *stomping on the discussion is not the righ= t answer*. > > What is this bike-shed thing? (I parsed this as bi-kesh'd the first time = I saw it.)\ > > Michael > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.