From 3T3OySwoJBsAqgroFv0zxg4gnuu.iusruphgtmuumrkmxu0vy.ius@groups.bounces.google.com Tue Mar 30 14:55:52 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3T3OySwoJBsAqgroFv0zxg4gnuu.iusruphgtmuumrkmxu0vy.ius@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwjPZ-0002cL-GT for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:55:52 -0700 Received: by vws12 with SMTP id 12sf684200vws.16 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:55:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BR2ixsmQvJHFdmJF89wOjekQJ0/KQKBix8x5ELRhf4s=; b=JqxyqGvrwnoEqYVN319Z7BfmouqD87ks4OtyJfTwwH4JLef17E7z0b/xuCWiyimC2A g7Ru3p1DkKt8KPjNcAvg3d1ogW8J2nKjPUw/CXnQl6Qsu4mk5qkw3ZXLOBZo1Zj8ee6I v+Ykat9gJN7QDr3yGDiUZePLWyz+WfEIaIAjc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jVnmLZrK1qcDuMVeNh9FM3K9jwa63oiezdC09zOwlWN3VtIJ5XfVWffF8ZBz2GedEO dEg1m7H+ttOqfBvDxx+em5u1zYqALGB43J8voXAGVt/DZAecp7CFKAT0GZa1lqY0lhgK 7hPL4sAX+UvHATA8WP2gxZPzn8aLJgSuSuUig= Received: by 10.220.107.155 with SMTP id b27mr659729vcp.16.1269986127608; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:55:27 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.47.17 with SMTP id l17ls2810364vcf.5.p; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.159.13 with SMTP id h13mr1761875vcx.0.1269986126266; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.159.13 with SMTP id h13mr1761874vcx.0.1269986126243; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.122]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id 27si14439845vws.5.2010.03.30.14.55.24; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.122 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.122; Received: (qmail 21648 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Mar 2010 21:55:24 -0000 Message-ID: <419041.21152.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: BSBW6Z0VM1kjdSPeiggsXJKpw_Zx.m_.YVdDxviC4pHtCqV 6gJJcmes1hApoMg4nYMgOr12.ec4qMGp91NTyJYg2B65CF6ffi0v8csnseiF 6voH70vVJIzp__RqOlfmKrOmC5jpjy7ZwtWeEhlcaX42zz6YUu.GyS3y.cC4 z56ToeDBfUaYmjLQVO09KrW0.G.SK9UnqUOqODGU3QwKnN0b0.eAWR4mK4xG k01QNKikXQZ6WoCYXPEK5OqLu5WYpCXYVxuUv9.mifW7GZdsues67RYm.2Zv p1dog8d7J_VSCneW2rCrPkvZeYd.kK6RcWJ5JRe15OQlQodreSLKjW2oRZ7N 9Vq6nTHRh3lPYzaWbAcTk2BHndyOeOVaZuckV Received: from [71.14.73.129] by web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:55:24 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/324.3 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 References: <4BB0D4DF.2070501@gmail.com> <20100330090253.GG3000@nvg.org> <59C6A282-0F28-4016-98C7-907FBD3C4379@gmail.com> <23298cb41003300332u6bde63fdk9f8b819fff7bf2ce@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1003300803m6caec9f7y7a66b3bf9b71009b@mail.gmail.com> <32A2435D-5119-409E-8CAD-E5F899C5AAF1@mac.com> <9E58473C-A8AC-464F-826D-E44470D7F15F@gmail.com> <79614.64421.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <925d17561003301438s3c8849cam720e481a8c0ac885@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:55:24 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: <925d17561003301438s3c8849cam720e481a8c0ac885@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.122 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/62f9be66be7ffeb2 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nice point. I don't see a solution except to shift after the introduction,= a not-unheard of pattern (e.g. English 'a' and 'the'). ----- Original Message ---- From: Jorge Llamb=EDas To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 4:38:32 PM Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 5:06 PM, John E Clifford wro= te: > 3. As for capitalizing words that are not cmene but Lojban phrases, the = easiest generally satisfactory way would seem to be to convert all the 'lo'= s (but surely they all should have been 'le's) to 'la's. We(*) struggled a bit with this issue, whether "the White Rabbit" (and most of the other characters) should be "le blabi ractu" or "la blabi ractu", and I'm not sure that the final version is completely consistent. (In fact, I'm almost sure it is inconsistent across characters, but hopefully at least consistent for each character. The across character inconsistency should probably be fixed.) The problem is that the first appearance of the character is usually something like: ...when suddenly a White Rabbit with pink eyes ran close by her... Using "la" there is really awkward. Even "le" is iffy. But thereafter he becomes 'the White Rabbit'. It almost means something like "...when suddenly a white rabbit with pink eyes (hereafter known as 'the White Rabbit') ran close by her..." I think we ended up using "lo" the first time at least sometimes, and then "le" or "la", but using "la" throughout doesn't seem like a terribly appealing option. (*) "We" because I was not the only one doing the translation, even though I was responsible for the final revision, as this started as a community project. I know that two or three other people did a chapter or so each, but I don't remember who they were. I think Pierre was one of them. If you were one, and want to be acknowledged, speak up! mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.