From 3m-2ySwgJBoc3pwnvtv5rxltw.nzxwzumlyrzzrwpr2z503.nzx@groups.bounces.google.com Tue Mar 30 23:37:42 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f160.google.com ([209.85.211.160]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3m-2ySwgJBoc3pwnvtv5rxltw.nzxwzumlyrzzrwpr2z503.nzx@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwrYW-0003eX-Lx for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:37:41 -0700 Received: by ywh32 with SMTP id 32sf10198774ywh.28 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:37:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:received:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=wk71HdPA7y5lcrItYeflcMxE57LBfOb69NZtHbsL3so=; b=c9Jmo0LZWp+Wy1eETOvaGStFpSENeYRrzluvo+Ym7cSyo8h6Cobq2lOqogIxlfdKDD G/DZ2zXbCfXR8qSRUsei3znbfVe5BRwravcfg9LeQhy59A6mkOdGrcnfiEikydzgZEgT bD+0LNnvz8lAyVusRoYM3MYw4QzWLG1qRZGbs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=XhOyKk6LlOPy7cNskE57kh+GuiOE+jFTtVsAq2i+wFhRDiTkUatUbM34QudugxF1rK 5wD+HiPn8DvcovU1WQMa7sQzvATaJlE7OA9+YJ54BHVJNqp0sx9GQ4Xs6XdvgdYEiAdQ l6G2jK/afjvYRjrUSHmF36X0Lo4iqhymas0yU= Received: by 10.151.32.5 with SMTP id k5mr376363ybj.85.1270017435512; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:37:15 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.93.10 with SMTP id v10ls67352agl.3.p; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.131.19 with SMTP id e19mr5913684agd.6.1270017431805; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.131.19 with SMTP id e19mr5913682agd.6.1270017431750; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gy0-f180.google.com (mail-gy0-f180.google.com [209.85.160.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 11si463293gxk.1.2010.03.30.23.37.10; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:37:10 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.180; Received: by gyc15 with SMTP id 15so6223799gyc.39 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:37:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.16.132 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:36:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100329143528.GA3085@sdf.lonestar.org> References: <702226df1003290711v11a9e957h537d99b637f40414@mail.gmail.com> <20100329143528.GA3085@sdf.lonestar.org> From: Stela Selckiku Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 02:36:50 -0400 Received: by 10.100.25.4 with SMTP id 4mr406292any.9.1270017430525; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:37:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: Lojban: You're Doing it Worng (was: Re: [lojban] la .alis.) To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/ae71ea92dbbfd5b1 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/e08b0f9d0ded1e06 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Minimiscience wrote: > > "{ta'u}" doesn't seem to serve any purpose; I use {ta'u} regularly. I strongly support our moving to a model of governance where we can get anything done, but that does not mean that we are about to throw everything out and start over! We are going to make conservative, commonsense changes to the official language to bring it into alignment with usage and rationality. It's not a language redesign. For one thing, if you want a lean, efficient, consistently organized loglang then the simple fact is that Lojban is not a good starting point! I'm working on a loglang myself at the moment, one with approximately 5 grammatical rules, which I'm sure is enough, and probably more than enough. Lojban's grammar is ornate, baroque. It's not going to become a lean, minimalistic language by cutting a few things here and there. Creating a minimalistic loglang is a sensible idea, but creating one by simplifying Lojban (and simplifying, and simplifying, and simplifying) would be madness. Also, and more importantly, Lojban is not a theoretical language. Alice, lo nu binxo, la nicte cadzu, la grutrduriani, Esther, Terry the Tiger Visits the Big City, etc., plus decades of mailing list and IRC logs, form our corpus. That might not seem like much coming from the outside world, but to us this is our carefully accumulated history, this is what we are that makes us an actual linguistic culture and not any old toy conlang someone's just sketched out. Any changes to the language that cause new students to be less equipped to read what we've written would not only do violence to our history, but directly insult many who are still with us and have put considerable effort into using this strange language as it stands. Lojban is a living language; first do no harm! mi'e la stela selckiku mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.