From 3tFazSwoJBgottvvkwlsk2qwksv.mywvytlkxqyyqvoq1y4z2.myw@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Mar 31 07:06:06 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3tFazSwoJBgottvvkwlsk2qwksv.mywvytlkxqyyqvoq1y4z2.myw@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwyYT-0005J3-St for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:06:06 -0700 Received: by vws1 with SMTP id 1sf148669vws.16 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:05:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sQG801BfqCff71vVgIQ0atkwXNmvIh96yADsaW5sfPc=; b=42EEKNtgulweg+zlIu8Zgi/K3FGXf/I4ox5GzmKEqyC1F8NSqnsLMlDgytIMkwtFsU FUsUyy5xbRNgYjWDq4Ili0cnMR3z31IuBLgwmzWlioskoFP8hhfnt3MdarLJnAn8zNUo /+I+s4XHEEyUHylijm2EH5/ZDzEfli/ehkyQw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=63qd4grfYL5luJQeXbzedGw1Hm8eQCLYpwdET0cVnx8e/9djZEvzScNkXxMTOAFBHO oJpjDFqVtyUT6ogkV85w/7xIi5OwI7eati/3ugjKLk2z6u3q+ATwAc7SyI0+A6/1azYG bcgqvMI5uoCB8ed1czQnnQHssyNDv7wzOP3EI= Received: by 10.220.88.99 with SMTP id z35mr333722vcl.34.1270044340140; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:05:40 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.68.217 with SMTP id w25ls114951vci.1.p; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.159.70 with SMTP id i6mr1912073vcx.15.1270044337170; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.159.70 with SMTP id i6mr1912071vcx.15.1270044336670; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.27]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 27si16365494vws.5.2010.03.31.07.05.35; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.27 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.92.27; Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 8so35798qwh.47 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:05:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.91.67 with HTTP; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:05:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <072F7F4E-1EB1-4BB5-B92D-7DDC4C43600B@gmail.com> References: <4BB0D4DF.2070501@gmail.com> <59C6A282-0F28-4016-98C7-907FBD3C4379@gmail.com> <23298cb41003300332u6bde63fdk9f8b819fff7bf2ce@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1003300803m6caec9f7y7a66b3bf9b71009b@mail.gmail.com> <32A2435D-5119-409E-8CAD-E5F899C5AAF1@mac.com> <9E58473C-A8AC-464F-826D-E44470D7F15F@gmail.com> <79614.64421.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <072F7F4E-1EB1-4BB5-B92D-7DDC4C43600B@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:05:34 -0300 Received: by 10.229.216.76 with SMTP id hh12mr662097qcb.47.1270044335360; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.27 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/e3e76ac49e035f47 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Michael Everson wrote: > On 30 Mar 2010, at 21:06, John E Clifford wrote: > >> 2. Unless things have changed a lot, the occurrence of ',' is almost alw= ays predictable. =A0The use in texts was originally an aid to learning, to = remind people to take a breath (or break). =A0Somehow, it stuck and is now = being touted as "standard orthography". =A0Are the only pictures allowed in= Lojban books to be those of Dick, =A0Jane, Spot, and Fluffy? > > In this text the only occurrence of comma is in the name "la meri,An". I = wonder of "la Meri An" is sufficient, unless stress must be marked as "la M= eri =C1n". I suspect John's ',' was a typo for '.'. The occurence of the period is the one that is fully predictable, the occurrence of the comma is fully unpredictable, and has no phonemic significance (indeed it is not even clear why the comma is part of the alphabet at all, since it doesn't represent any phoneme). Also, it is the period, not the comma that serves "to remind people to take a breath (or break)", the comma serves to remind NOT to take a breath or break, even though there is a syllable boundary. "la Meri An" doesn't work, because "meri" is the cmavo string "me ri", not a cmevla. I would suggest "la meri=E1n" or "la Meri=E1n", or if three syllables is a must, then "la merii=E1n" or "la Merii=E1n". >> =A0 =A0 But there are some places where a pause is not so obvious, mainl= y IIRC at the ends of names. =A0To be sure, if the name is capitalized, the= n this is predictable =A0as well, even if the name is a purely Lojban phras= e. =A0In short, a dotless text would be quite adequate and much nicer looki= ng. The pause after cmevla is fully predictable, as they are the only words that end in a consonant. Names that do not use cmevla do not require a pause. >> 3. =A0As for capitalizing words that are not cmene but Lojban phrases, t= he easiest generally satisfactory way would seem to be to convert all the '= lo's (but surely they all should have been 'le's) to 'la's. > > This does seem to be satisfactory, if the grammar allows it. As I said, using "la" for: ...when suddenly a White Rabbit with pink eyes ran close by her... is at the very least semantically odd. (Syntactically, it is fine.) mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.