From 3Ml-zSwcJBpAyIy87EC06u25.w86583vu708805y0B8E9C.w86@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Mar 31 07:42:20 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3Ml-zSwcJBpAyIy87EC06u25.w86583vu708805y0B8E9C.w86@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nwz7X-00043r-Vo for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:42:20 -0700 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5sf140387gyd.16 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:42:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=dPVXbrHO0jP9K7uXv1LQy/JVSDm/OcHca2owVfjUEh4=; b=VLFsYs2Q4yi7VUwDrIjDKcS7w9w+0MZ5LrN+vNXd2tz3RrmNmlEib3diBDEXFd7akH sks7oLI6R4bpSqm/sUliOjrl48yQRcBDaSnp992w5ONRzwv+yIpIWTgHjxj69z4Hntk8 FGiLHmrehMK2/ho44JQaJ5wqeWMchsbxPf+Xs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=Jjc9c+tfDd88pWKpZylmhH/lj4j6iOYhSe1qfl9LAwe+O7w+6xXEW/+sgolv2KC7uu tLVrsnTrz91ioKQpTiBDwXCxHC4askc+/LuOflfEP5eihk7iDs9xuOaxVNZvkGEoQ37b uiGIY9LYV48k78IHcJWUSMepgMzuAGP3KJRrg= Received: by 10.101.5.7 with SMTP id h7mr186190ani.16.1270046514672; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:41:54 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.6.87 with SMTP id 23ls126621bky.0.p; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:41:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.163.19 with SMTP id y19mr473003bkx.22.1270046511332; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:41:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.163.19 with SMTP id y19mr473002bkx.22.1270046511265; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:41:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f41.google.com (mail-ww0-f41.google.com [74.125.82.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id v26si6819809bkt.3.2010.03.31.07.41.50; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.41; Received: by wwb18 with SMTP id 18so114832wwb.28 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:41:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.2.209 with HTTP; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:41:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4BB0D4DF.2070501@gmail.com> <702226df1003300803m6caec9f7y7a66b3bf9b71009b@mail.gmail.com> <32A2435D-5119-409E-8CAD-E5F899C5AAF1@mac.com> <9E58473C-A8AC-464F-826D-E44470D7F15F@gmail.com> <79614.64421.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <925d17561003301438s3c8849cam720e481a8c0ac885@mail.gmail.com> <419041.21152.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:41:49 -0600 Received: by 10.216.89.80 with SMTP id b58mr1495809wef.73.1270046509958; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/9363e1771d6887b9 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dab034131b7c048319bfab --0016e6dab034131b7c048319bfab Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/3/31 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 6:55 PM, John E Clifford > wrote: > > Nice point. I don't see a solution except to shift after the > introduction, a not-unheard of pattern (e.g. English 'a' and 'the'). > > What kind of shift do you mean? > > (1) from "lo blabi ractu" to "le blabi ractu" > (2) from "lo blabi ractu" to "la blabi ractu" > (3) from "lo blabi ractu" to "la Blabi Ractu" > (4) from "lo Blabi Ractu" to "la Blabi Ractu" > > (1) is what I have, and the closest to the ordinary English shift from > 'a' to 'the', with no caps. > (2) is not like an ordinary English shift, but it treats "blabi ractu" > as a name at least from the second time it appears. > (3) is like (2), plus typographic capitalization of names, > "audio-visual isomorphism" neutral. > (4) is the closest to the original, unusual style used by Lewis > Carrol, but the least "audio-visually isomorphic", since the namehood > suggested by the written "lo Blabi Ractu" is lost in spoken form. > > I would prefer, in order, 2,1,3,4. I'd rather have 2 than 1, 1 than 3, 3 than 4. > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --0016e6dab034131b7c048319bfab Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2010/3/31 Jorge Llamb=EDas <= ;jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 6:55 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Nice point. =A0I don't see a solution except to shift after the in= troduction, a not-unheard of pattern (e.g. English 'a' and 'the= ').

What kind of shift do you mean?

(1) from "lo blabi ractu" to "le blabi ractu"
(2) from "lo blabi ractu" to "la blabi ractu"
(3) from "lo blabi ractu" to "la Blabi Ractu"
(4) from "lo Blabi Ractu" to "la Blabi Ractu"

(1) is what I have, and the closest to the ordinary English shift from
'a' to 'the', with no caps.
(2) is not like an ordinary English shift, but it treats "blabi ractu&= quot;
as a name at least from the second time it appears.
(3) is like (2), plus typographic capitalization of names,
"audio-visual isomorphism" neutral.
(4) is the closest to the original, unusual style used by Lewis
Carrol, but the least "audio-visually isomorphic", since the name= hood
suggested by the written "lo Blabi Ractu" is lost in spoken form.=

I would= prefer, in order, 2,1,3,4. I'd rather have 2 than 1, 1 than 3, 3 than = 4.
=A0
mu'o mi'e xorxes

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
=

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