From 3QmuzSwgJBqwSQf.adQZSYMUX.OaYXaVNMZSaaSXQSdagbe.OaY@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Mar 31 08:33:48 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3QmuzSwgJBqwSQf.adQZSYMUX.OaYXaVNMZSaaSXQSdagbe.OaY@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NwzvL-0007cT-Gm for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:33:48 -0700 Received: by gwb1 with SMTP id 1sf208649gwb.16 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:33:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=T2NCwlQftJGs5o9xj5ij/yatAx7xuFLkrFBRWwFriQM=; b=2oIrHhi51I4Y8DtKzd5fpdcERe+6o9D4j+qhI/wbNX1/ldhQgUKhlEiLv5S28jfxvW qU/7q8ItXnlwBBE9pnQQZDkRJSoE6qjtNxwiSik2d9XGyVq9ALzSjxDlWX4CM1VcljM4 67jnUhZu6l0Lb3zacYeroBmNs1WJxJy2ndEAA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=QmiXLVo0k6X3vLULyFH0Nh2tMM2RAWz10zk/sxT4QmRafuiRCXadm8lgvHgfV3YSss lJmSUeOlldQvPvyP1PTyrcveuFFiFtS6gWvoZKi/nUwaBO9OeRrY2aAIta3kJSN4l1ZS QCQ9kJezfvkm4JKlZtwPMlxT7OvFWIC6vggnI= Received: by 10.91.101.18 with SMTP id d18mr32368agm.25.1270049602451; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:33:22 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.50.148 with SMTP id z20ls155892ibf.2.p; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.182.135 with SMTP id cc7mr610426ibb.7.1270049600555; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.182.135 with SMTP id cc7mr610425ibb.7.1270049600529; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f180.google.com (mail-iw0-f180.google.com [209.85.223.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si1034201iwn.13.2010.03.31.08.33.19; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 209.85.223.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.223.180; Received: by mail-iw0-f180.google.com with SMTP id 10so195479iwn.10 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:33:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.109.10 with HTTP; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:33:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <473581.57275.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <473581.57275.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:33:15 +0800 Received: by 10.142.3.26 with SMTP id 26mr102852wfc.165.1270049595549; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:33:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Re: Why jungo makes no sense From: Oren To: lojban X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 209.85.223.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=get.oren@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: get.oren@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/8064fd053d75d1da X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/8dca3e9c35b6bd4 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On a culture tangent, here's a recent post I made at the wiki: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Why+jungo+makes+no+sense. (summary, with background) China is one of those situations where it puts a lot of strain on one little gismu. China consists of a population on the eastern lowlands of Asia that identify as "Han" (ethnically, whatever that means), speak hundreds of languages/dialects while sharing a written script, and its current political territory spans several previous countries (Tibet and East Turkistan), and has nearly a dozen 'autonomous regions,' and several disputed/ambiguous territories (Hong Kong, Taiwan). To boot, the term for China in lojban is 'jungo,' which derives from the official autonym of the newest government, but not a unifying name for the inhabitants of these territories. My current assessment: don't mess with trying to do every 10,000 dialect/ethnicity/culture justice, because you can't. At least not soon, and when you do, use autonymic cmene. But we still want to talk about culture, so focus on what's defined, which is language codes and UN recognized territorial boundaries. Equip users of lojban to know what they're saying, and say (specifically) what they mean. On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 21:25, A. PIEKARSKI wrote: > Hi Oren, > > I read this and agree.=A0 Why don't you post this on Googlegroups so as t= o > get a debate going. It will remain invisible to most lojbanists if it jus= t stays > on the wiki. > > By the way, here are some of my favourites; > > 1) Gismu for Tunisian culture, none for Indian.=A0 Half of India's popula= tion > would feel insulted by {xingu'e} since it is non-Hindi}. > > 2) {kisto}.=A0 Pakistani or Pushto.=A0 Which is it? > > 3) Gismu for Taoist but none for Confucist ( I did create a fu'ivla for t= his). > > totus > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.