From eyeonus@gmail.com Fri Mar 05 06:37:38 2010 Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.78.150]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NnYej-0000KZ-4i for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Mar 2010 06:37:38 -0800 Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so507156eyb.36 for ; Fri, 05 Mar 2010 06:37:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Dhvp0g8vRZvUA1UqF6XZZIQh3vbzyDAxBjtJYL+tRu0=; b=lBJhLDL2MIya+CkRcn3a07cH9XsRQakFHHjwbffLehSA+XgcpRozLrIUrJca+WXU3Y VP0i3gZxBpnytXVZv/f3YE5KF+C1vOf30lejgDMR0BMZK1u5uNaY+rQjKXzj6LyMrEg9 RXjl49AFidMvP9ujFz/jqbxs3WjJvZLnqdn+E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=M9P+GO2qHAa2IgJXCqostf/7JD6bs0bSCqF37gfvI+YKxuCDEIH4oaXRWKV59Smjk+ K4jEdDlY5bVDJuDF2fiHlXzD3vFzEpD0NHxQ5ptAkNTCTbbQUChoBUvUumHlLB2U1nlD NQNuFf37KnVO8vRWKi4wdMeSVXu/j1lP7ryyc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.89.209 with SMTP id c59mr156327wef.181.1267799851084; Fri, 05 Mar 2010 06:37:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <925d17561003050434m7010e535rca50dd0e79eb79a6@mail.gmail.com> References: <395141.17119.qm@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <96f789a61003040653h3cbf33fbn82c24ece8e63ec22@mail.gmail.com> <925d17561003040928r5d2d85efma8db985509ffbadf@mail.gmail.com> <369994.71546.qm@web50404.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <925d17561003041351u11a65d8fpadc799cd405f8291@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9301003041359u2e158b13gac898593a8311c1d@mail.gmail.com> <925d17561003041414w6122f0c4y757f43f70a9bbcd5@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9301003041442r613e933g80234426ff0d4cb5@mail.gmail.com> <249d5b951003041916n67235566jf7415ce90e4dc757@mail.gmail.com> <925d17561003050434m7010e535rca50dd0e79eb79a6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 07:37:30 -0700 Message-ID: <702226df1003050637s4aa32cd2k662f922fb648023e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Fw: bridi tail negation From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban-list@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dab056c530b204810ea7d2 --0016e6dab056c530b204810ea7d2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would guess that the reason for the {se ... fa} bit was partly to emphasize the experience and partly to keep from having to figure out how t= o terminate {lonu zutse ne'i le ricyzda gi'enai tavla} 2010/3/5 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:16 AM, MorphemeAddict wrote= : > > I once stated that the emphasis of the arguments changes when SE is use= d, > > but was told that SE does not cause such change in emphasis. It would b= e > > handy if it did. > > I think bringing an argument to the front does make it more topical. > But in this case, it was not really brought to the front, or it was > brought to the front only to be pushed back again with "fa": > > zanfri ko'a -> se zanfri fa ko'a > > So the difference in this case is not really about ko'a, but about > where the elided zo'e is: > > (zo'e) zanfri ko'a -> se zanfri fa ko'a (zo'e) > > In the second form the experiencer is perhaps even more irrelevant > than in the first form. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.or= g > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu --0016e6dab056c530b204810ea7d2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would guess that the reason for the {se ... fa} bit was partly to emphasi= ze the experience and partly to keep from having to figure out how to termi= nate=A0{lonu zutse ne'i le= ricyzda gi'enai tavla}

2010/3/5 Jorge Llamb=EDas = <jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:16 AM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
> I once stated that the emphasis of the arguments changes when SE is us= ed,
> but was told that SE does not cause such change in emphasis. It would = be
> handy if it did.

I think bringing an argument to the front does make it more topical.<= br> But in this case, it was not really brought to the front, or it was
brought to the front only to be pushed back again with "fa":

=A0 zanfri ko'a =A0-> =A0se zanfri fa ko'a

So the difference in this case is not really about ko'a, but about
where the elided zo'e is:

=A0 (zo'e) zanfri ko'a =A0-> se zanfri fa ko'a (zo'e)
In the second form the experiencer is perhaps even more irrelevant
than in the first form.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.




--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
=
--0016e6dab056c530b204810ea7d2--