From 3fHSzSwwJBu8RURdXRiiZXljXdRZc.TfdcfaSReXffXcVXiflgj.Tfd@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Mar 31 09:13:13 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f192.google.com ([209.85.217.192]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3fHSzSwwJBu8RURdXRiiZXljXdRZc.TfdcfaSReXffXcVXiflgj.Tfd@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nx0XT-0002Jm-SU for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:13:12 -0700 Received: by gxk8 with SMTP id 8sf343754gxk.12 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:13:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=Q7AtQUE+cw0PM11E5ZcKAX1+Qaa46wZvHsyulWjSFfk=; b=QEz+tdCfSrSEa5o3d1rpcVXpnb7hM3cBLS+CWeuSLAaS+9JZWU2wbYezoJ13imwtu6 vd1QDlDEqKWqI64ftClqi4xxyIZbVd+zinYjQUXM6SfZQdKixH9BacBjvJng08sSU4K4 EHXMCqouJYTzIuqNcYqxm0LyrpaovgBzU7PUQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=4Kj8SqoO+oJ6W3MqVIzhfc/SLyh/FGS/hmOIlZok7sLz5tuQ4GUilUFAOVppcXPJ1Z JY+7dRzSaAjB/t9074ZQZH3jrlBBr9DzDhW+nkQsqaqnRjYF9FWyV64O1EZPIwKg/5Sw JvPpIsc1w9GjfOfnEvetIChYsg7MBU+poviLA= Received: by 10.91.181.11 with SMTP id i11mr39588agp.0.1270051964445; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:12:44 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.122.100 with SMTP id k36ls167645ibr.0.p; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.190.16 with SMTP id dg16mr619539ibb.5.1270051962120; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.190.16 with SMTP id dg16mr619538ibb.5.1270051962077; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vw0-f54.google.com (mail-vw0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 19si1030074iwn.10.2010.03.31.09.12.40; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:12:41 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of adamgarrigus@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.54; Received: by mail-vw0-f54.google.com with SMTP id 17so116995vws.27 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:12:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.74.136 with HTTP; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:12:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <473581.57275.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:12:40 -0400 Received: by 10.220.60.205 with SMTP id q13mr1175228vch.188.1270051960738; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Why jungo makes no sense From: "komfo,amonan" To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of adamgarrigus@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=adamgarrigus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: adamgarrigus@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/8064fd053d75d1da X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/62f312c65a59b8ee List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e0cb4e8878a5f751e804831b03d3 --e0cb4e8878a5f751e804831b03d3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Oren wrote: > On a culture tangent, here's a recent post I made at the wiki: > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Why+jungo+makes+no+sense. > > (summary, with background) > China is one of those situations where it puts a lot of strain on one > little gismu. China consists of a population on the eastern lowlands > of Asia that identify as "Han" (ethnically, whatever that means), > speak hundreds of languages/dialects while sharing a written script, > and its current political territory spans several previous countries > (Tibet and East Turkistan), and has nearly a dozen 'autonomous > regions,' and several disputed/ambiguous territories (Hong Kong, > Taiwan). > > To boot, the term for China in lojban is 'jungo,' which derives from > the official autonym of the newest government, but not a unifying name > for the inhabitants of these territories. > > My current assessment: don't mess with trying to do every 10,000 > dialect/ethnicity/culture justice, because you can't. At least not > soon, and when you do, use autonymic cmene. > > But we still want to talk about culture, so focus on what's defined, > which is language codes and UN recognized territorial boundaries. > Equip users of lojban to know what they're saying, and say > (specifically) what they mean. > I couldn't attach a comment on that wiki page for some reason. So I mention here that both {djonguo} and {djonxua} are legitimate stage-4 fu'ivla according to vlatai and to my gut. So you don't need to deform them. 'Hanzu' more naturally goes to {xa'anzu} to me than to {xna'adzu}, but meh. Also, Wikipedia says that Zhongguo has been used for centuries, which is what I had always thought. < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_China#Zhongguo_and_Zhonghua > mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --e0cb4e8878a5f751e804831b03d3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Oren <get.oren@gmail.com> wrote:
On a culture tangent, here's a recent post I made at the wiki:
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Why+jungo+makes+no+sense.

(summary, with background)
China is one of those situations where it puts a lot of strain on one
little gismu. China consists of a population on the eastern lowlands
of Asia that identify as "Han" (ethnically, whatever that means),=
speak hundreds of languages/dialects while sharing a written script,
and its current political territory spans several previous countries
(Tibet and East Turkistan), and has nearly a dozen 'autonomous
regions,' and several disputed/ambiguous territories (Hong Kong,
Taiwan).

To boot, the term for China in lojban is 'jungo,' which derives fro= m
the official autonym of the newest government, but not a unifying name
for the inhabitants of these territories.

My current assessment: don't mess with trying to do every 10,000
dialect/ethnicity/culture justice, because you can't. At least not
soon, and when you do, use autonymic cmene.

But we still want to talk about culture, so focus on what's defined, which is language codes and UN recognized territorial boundaries.
Equip users of lojban to know what they're saying, and say
(specifically) what they mean.

I couldn't attach a comment on that wiki page for some reas= on. So I mention here that both {djonguo} and {djonxua} are legitimate stag= e-4 fu'ivla according to vlatai and to my gut. So you don't need to= deform them. 'Hanzu' more naturally goes to {xa'anzu} to me th= an to {xna'adzu}, but meh.

Also, Wikipedia says that Zhongguo has been used for centuries, which i= s what I had always thought. < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_= China#Zhongguo_and_Zhonghua >

mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan

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