From 3JXWzSwYKBpkEHC434EHC43G.HK9EHC43G9HH9E79KHNIL.5HF@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Mar 31 09:15:58 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3JXWzSwYKBpkEHC434EHC43G.HK9EHC43G9HH9E79KHNIL.5HF@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nx0aA-0002Xo-D0 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:15:58 -0700 Received: by vws1 with SMTP id 1sf451053vws.16 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:15:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:received:x-vr-score :x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score:message-id:date:from:user-agent :x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hKp8fewoKVruLBoUHWYW41phM2CB9OW7+U427Sl9+b8=; b=4tUfYwp4wLAabTUKK5eUrZ6Itxk1sYVyxs08e1Aht8loF6jEsKDCqbz3VKNABW1yo4 A5q2AfPloI4yhENy9xx9U4cAk5gpGVRcqBa+eDmKKaVjgV/D4gA1qOg0Sy/tiOnWVBHC S7QNarhHQUy3ugcsZaD7HKfzSAbAT+2Bpc7EQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-vr-score:x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score :message-id:date:from:user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=Vl1JsohEA7S8ojgSZkC/08DLGW9YAuUEI8X57RaSR89FBLqo3KUnonCn24oH+zXl5q B7uN88bV9zophQotlqpatgn1s2+gW+zM9dJLm8FRkb86RkqPlnucJlNCWWvHRCSmL1ob kQNxvzBJqRDTFdoeuwXQojRZCiXJqdqn32ESQ= Received: by 10.220.123.92 with SMTP id o28mr1832vcr.30.1270052133224; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:15:33 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.174.133 with SMTP id t5ls144619vcz.2.p; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.66.101 with SMTP id m37mr1909435vci.3.1270052132010; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.152.18 with SMTP id z18mr238869agd.10.1270045854587; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:30:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.152.18 with SMTP id z18mr238852agd.10.1270045854264; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:30:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eastrmmtao106.cox.net (eastrmmtao106.cox.net [68.230.240.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si309427yxe.13.2010.03.31.07.30.54; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:30:54 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.48 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.240.48; Received: from eastrmimpo01.cox.net ([68.1.16.119]) by eastrmmtao106.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100331143053.JRBZ26523.eastrmmtao106.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:30:53 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([70.187.225.124]) by eastrmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id zqWt1d00K2hfrC602qWtFj; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:30:53 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=Yd6n7kpaeok2sKwUQduWw1HOOSorp7OfhjNp8nTEG5A= c=1 sm=1 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=lsg66w07okjF3vGJL2g+Jw==:17 a=EjlBo8JDkWQXTFldsCkA:9 a=e4OkhLtXUJTIjo8Ej-QA:7 a=WxAzdSzawgK_hA_FrFL0HV1t0KwA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Ux-HhH7CsOAu3exj:21 a=w7DuybGhQ98qumlO:21 a=lsg66w07okjF3vGJL2g+Jw==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <4BB35C9A.6080903@lojban.org> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:30:50 -0400 From: Bob LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. References: <4BB0D4DF.2070501@gmail.com> <59C6A282-0F28-4016-98C7-907FBD3C4379@gmail.com> <23298cb41003300332u6bde63fdk9f8b819fff7bf2ce@mail.gmail.com> <702226df1003300803m6caec9f7y7a66b3bf9b71009b@mail.gmail.com> <32A2435D-5119-409E-8CAD-E5F899C5AAF1@mac.com> <9E58473C-A8AC-464F-826D-E44470D7F15F@gmail.com> <79614.64421.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <072F7F4E-1EB1-4BB5-B92D-7DDC4C43600B@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.48 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/bce7424351da0e0c Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > As I said, using "la" for: >=20 > ...when suddenly a White Rabbit with pink eyes ran close by her... >=20 > is at the very least semantically odd. (Syntactically, it is fine.) By English semantics it is somewhat odd. It seems precisely to=20 represent in Lojban the choice in the English to capitalize what are=20 normally common nouns in English. Compare "suddenly a John Smith with=20 brown hair ran past her" (would "la" be semantically odd in translating=20 that?). With the proviso that I don't know what "la" is currently defined as=20 under the adopted xorlo %^) The capitalization suggests a named=20 referent, and in English suggests the possibility of plural such named=20 referents of which this is but one. Lojban "la" is (I suspect)=20 ambivalent in number. It is possible that under xorlo, which IIRC has=20 no default number interpretation, all instances of English "a" should=20 correctly be translated as "pa lo" or "pa le" or "pa la". lojbab --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.