From 3tIazSwoJBjoffhhWiXeWociWeh.YkihkfXWjckkchacnkqlo.Yki@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Mar 31 10:32:44 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3tIazSwoJBjoffhhWiXeWociWeh.YkihkfXWjckkchacnkqlo.Yki@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nx1mE-0000n4-IU for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:32:41 -0700 Received: by vws1 with SMTP id 1sf639187vws.16 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:32:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Lo0jCoG8LKXnZ6prJVR0dKp73FB3gbnyI47W4Za1Z3A=; b=J2wsLBoVYqPiFGJmnpNIs6MeJxnYLDNTFLi/du7VAe8MRnm4OAAtMkN+8ZTyRiCkYN Etkc8opb8fvxgirjLq27lElV3U4lLdmO3G2w2bk7fHTvomTjRWDa7jO/a9aeTUZveFzj JOx3Q1e1HU3TK8WrRuWsZErygE9dTnrm/7VWA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=xQFwuAO+BfW/TG4Wj636Y1RQaaEcTeqEgCcEY5UHpWaNyEHS/nWyx3A77cQ7FojVnk Asv+QqXA6lu76XrxJW+FgMbfzRXsmdlX70jXScKVCvxj5x95F6tN50poKQxxXv7SWQ1F 3VOmEti0AtLkil8lJpLOmDqEWrH9D1K1OXhFY= Received: by 10.220.127.34 with SMTP id e34mr12730vcs.32.1270056628892; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:30:28 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.79.3 with SMTP id n3ls165424vck.3.p; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.64.213 with SMTP id f21mr2028866vci.22.1270056625869; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.64.213 with SMTP id f21mr2028865vci.22.1270056625843; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com (qw-out-1920.google.com [74.125.92.148]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 25si16800174vws.0.2010.03.31.10.30.24; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:30:24 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.148 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.92.148; Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 4so107015qwk.64 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:30:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.91.67 with HTTP; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:30:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201003311307.07351.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <4BB0D4DF.2070501@gmail.com> <4BB35C9A.6080903@lojban.org> <201003311307.07351.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:30:24 -0300 Received: by 10.229.191.138 with SMTP id dm10mr204566qcb.52.1270056624509; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:30:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] la .alis. From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.148 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/62f96e395a91e500 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/aa75430eea41b5c4 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Wednesday 31 March 2010 10:30:50 Bob LeChevalier wrote: >> Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: >> > As I said, using "la" for: >> > >> > =A0 =A0 ...when suddenly a White Rabbit with pink eyes ran close by he= r... >> > >> > is at the very least semantically odd. (Syntactically, it is fine.) >> >> By English semantics it is somewhat odd. =A0It seems precisely to >> represent in Lojban the choice in the English to capitalize what are >> normally common nouns in English. =A0Compare "suddenly a John Smith with >> brown hair ran past her" (would "la" be semantically odd in translating >> that?). That's simply not normal English, and besides it is not what the original means. But yes, if the original meant something similar to "a John Smith", then "la" would be perfectly fine. But it doesn't. > .i suksa fa le nu la bi'u djan.smit. noi bunre se kerfa cu bajra zo'a .ab= u But of course that is not what the original means. The original doesn't suggest that of the many things with name "the White Rabbit", one who happens to have pink eyes suddenly ran close by her. The noun phrase "a White Rabbit" in that sentence is clearly not used as a name. The capital letters are just Lewis Carrol being fancy. In a somewhat similar vein, the typography used for the Mouse's long tale/tail is pure visual play, don't expect any spoken cues to correspond to that. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.