From 3nIyzSwkJBigVFcWEQTTMKQEMP.GSQPSNFERKSSKPIKVSYTW.GSQ@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Mar 31 10:55:59 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f148.google.com ([209.85.221.148]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3nIyzSwkJBigVFcWEQTTMKQEMP.GSQPSNFERKSSKPIKVSYTW.GSQ@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nx28x-0002U7-LM for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:55:59 -0700 Received: by mail-qy0-f148.google.com with SMTP id 12sf454864qyk.1 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:55:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:date :in-reply-to:x-ip:references:user-agent:x-http-useragent:received :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=vS8CEoWzj5SMZ+qi3bWm/WsRazgt3MxuGwGRwduRPzk=; b=XhCdQuH6n9xfkOYRwpGR+FAekpuN+TRrUCAuTAgmLW0FG2EMb99Cs75q7MReyUwwp3 XBHgDG8TcQtwNS8K8lkjNFEI954nxquu1srLII7YwEV08dn5iEVTXJhmzaXZUtOowPPz 1QN8fm1274UfAsPu9HfSkKX/wHefNkppEzJFc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip :references:user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=xFeVfDuVuFnQpou4z+RxKKOg7KZK4M+nswhBRx54axcpwExnd6RYmLtwgg7p9oEZeE hRJyyXJzqxrycLMbrWvOKuldw5T47ZIXF1ul924TFrDEABsg6H/NwaI3cR0cD2PguCxJ Yg6cwnIVaDlUIGgwW932mP6LdvJbbg5h6BfXw= Received: by 10.229.43.209 with SMTP id x17mr211498qce.25.1270058140606; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:55:40 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.92.132 with SMTP id r4ls183556qam.1.p; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.1.211 with SMTP id 19mr157121qag.20.1270058139274; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.73.204 with SMTP id r12mr2005206vcj.29.1270057958820; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.73.204 with SMTP id r12mr2005205vcj.29.1270057958770; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw0-f59.google.com (mail-gw0-f59.google.com [74.125.83.59]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 25si16845648vws.0.2010.03.31.10.52.38; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rbysamppi@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.59 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.59; Received: by mail-gw0-f59.google.com with SMTP id 19so348778gwj.4 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:52:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by z3g2000yqz.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:52:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-IP: 150.135.210.16 References: User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_3; en-us) AppleWebKit/531.22.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Safari/531.22.7,gzip(gfe) Received: by 10.101.175.10 with SMTP id c10mr1anp.60.1270057958657; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <529d5619-752b-4b95-acbf-f8582a3ca635@z3g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Summary: Cultural fu'ivla From: symuyn To: lojban X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rbysamppi@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.59 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rbysamppi@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: rbysamppi@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/6edf3f52e6f491ba X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/7cc9cda889bd0aa Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for summing up the discussion. I do like all of the ideas except the religion one. Is there a particular reason why *gismu* should be used to represent religions? I would think that fu=92ivla should be used for religions, as they would be with cultures, languages, nations, and continents. This is my biggest qualm. Another, less important question: why should language fu'ivla be directly based on the ISO codes rather than their *native* names? Well, the ISO codes *are* based on native names, as far as I can tell, but I don't know what advantage this would give. In addition, there could be a disadvantage in that the fu'ivla will resemble the language's native name less, which I think is important. But=85I *am* fine with using the ISO codes, if there's a good reason. Thirdly, will the language fu'ivla cover *languages* specifically? As in, will it be "x1 pertains to language =85" or "x1 is in language =85", etc.? One more thing: let's include oceans and major water bodies too if we're dealing with continents/major landmasses. :) On Mar 31, 10:17 am, Christopher Doty wrote: > I just wanted to sort of condense what we have been talking about here in= a > more compact fashion. Essentially, the idea would be to (I've ordered th= e > list logically, not temporally): > > 1) Chuck the cultural gismu (this seems to be an idea that has been aroun= d > for awhile anyway, we just need good replacements). > > 2) Develop a new, much smaller set of gismu to cover things that were > previously included in the cultural gismu, such as reflecting > language/cultural/nationality in some respect. > > 3) For countries/territories: develop fu'ivla for the member states of th= e > UN, along with other "important" areas (importance being based on an as-y= et > undetermined criterion). > > 4) For languages: develop fu'ivla based on the ISO code for the languages > present in the 639-1 set of codes, but using their code as of the 639-3 > revision. (I think it would be cool to use the language family codes, as > presented here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_639-2#Collective_languag= e_codes), when > filling out the fu'ivla.) > > 5) For religions: develop gismu that cover the world's major religions > (probably with some artificial cut-off for number of adherents), (along w= ith > another couple gismu for "atheist" and something like "native > beliefs/practices of x2"?) > > 6) For land masses: develop fu'ivla for either the seven continents as > conventionally understood, or else for the major tectonic plates (which > largely correlates with the continents, but leads to a bit more precision > with a few more fu'ivla). If we did go the plate route, we'd have to aga= in > have some sort of artificial cut-off TBD. > > Hopefully that summary accurately represents the discussion thus far. > > Since it seems like this project has stagnated in the past, I'm more than > willing to head this up (in the coordinating-efforts way, not the > making-decisions way) and start coming up with some of the fu'ivla, and g= et > something set up on the wiki for people to contribute to. But, before I = do > any of that, I'd like to make sure that a) people seem generally of the > opinion that some change like this is probably a good idea, b) that this = is > the right way to go about it, and c) that folks are ok with a relative > newbie like me taking point in coordinating things. I certainly don't wa= nt > to step on people's toes, but I'd also like to see this get done. > > Chris --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.