From 3-5CzSwoJBos7931xrw6x7v1px0.r3103yqp2v33v0tv63947.r31@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Mar 31 11:14:46 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f163.google.com ([209.85.210.163]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3-5CzSwoJBos7931xrw6x7v1px0.r3103yqp2v33v0tv63947.r31@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nx2R6-000466-Fb for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:14:46 -0700 Received: by yxe35 with SMTP id 35sf382973yxe.24 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:14:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:received:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=oH69AG96fTpXvLDE9c6jxCKMFBZ3scUMr8sTpeXZYvw=; b=AtTLQ99zTr5d9G6IdzqLRr5OC47x2oXluyeUr0W/VpIs7l1gyuEUdD92gnXSQJIxGu mDCS5mkrkVMRLi69YhHj2mepNnMp2wWhkbzZ8mzB0Yo6Pnyg4vXnR8GxiFAgCFNxblT+ NQjFCXzfGdgEYpxtv+FYeohqJAnviDXPVD+eY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=ggvSiRxyEqOToEHBYan2NtuVWxbz4f4xLipFSnRt13yTid/bSfGG3ETSbdpR5OgWh6 Hv2cAV6rc7ZktcZ8jVD/ayZKJRx476L0az13hj+ZHV7CabGnVRnPcPxdXsf2BN9SH1ey lxx7219T8d9aEGFW0qZAkpFPg2/YYtT4OarLo= Received: by 10.150.173.16 with SMTP id v16mr15008ybe.57.1270059259293; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:14:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.93.10 with SMTP id v10ls150679agl.3.p; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.91.58.18 with SMTP id l18mr596409agk.1.1270059255284; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.91.58.18 with SMTP id l18mr596387agk.1.1270059254590; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:14:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw0-f50.google.com (mail-gw0-f50.google.com [74.125.83.50]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si99026ywh.6.2010.03.31.11.14.13; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of suomichris@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.50; Received: by mail-gw0-f50.google.com with SMTP id 19so206273gwj.23 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:14:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.5.20 with HTTP; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:13:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201003311400.42783.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <201003311400.42783.phma@phma.optus.nu> From: Christopher Doty Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:13:51 -0700 Received: by 10.101.141.13 with SMTP id t13mr115544ann.77.1270059252742; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Summary: Cultural fu'ivla To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of suomichris@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=suomichris@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: suomichris@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/6edf3f52e6f491ba X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/ff6fcd05a23381b6 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e68e919e9a7b6604831cb6f5 --0016e68e919e9a7b6604831cb6f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:00, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > 2) Develop a new, much smaller set of gismu to cover things that were > > previously included in the cultural gismu, such as reflecting > > language/cultural/nationality in some respect. > > We have "bangu", "kulnu", "natmi", and "gugde". What more do we need? I'm not sure I follow this; can you give an example of how you'd use gugde to get to reflecting a certain nationality? If no new gismu would be needed, awesome; I just don't know how this would work. I think that fu'ivla for languages should be usually based on the autonym of > the language. This will result in collisions (e.g. in one country there are > three languages called Pong), which have to be resolved somehow (e.g. > slovako/slovino). Also the place structure for a type-4 fu'ivla is "x1 > reflects Almonian language/culture in aspect x2"; for the language > specifically, use a type-3 based on "bangu". > The ISO codes are based on the autonym, so it amounts to the same thing; Croatian is, for example, hrv, reflecting "hrvatski." Re: the place structure--the idea that language and culture are inherently linked is what we are trying to get away from... Or what I would like to see Lojban get away from, anyway. And, since the idea seemed to be to use cmene for cultural traits, the type-4 definition could simply be(come) "x1 reflects English language in aspect x2", no? Or am I missing something here, too. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0016e68e919e9a7b6604831cb6f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:00, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>= wrote:
> 2) Develop a new, much smaller set of gismu to cover things that were<= br> > previously included in the cultural gismu, such as reflecting
> language/cultural/nationality in some respect.

We have "bangu", "kulnu", "natmi", and = "gugde". What more do we need?

I&= #39;m not sure I follow this; can you give an example of how you'd use = gugde to get to reflecting a certain nationality? If no new gismu would be = needed, awesome; I just don't know how this would work.=A0

I think that fu'ivla for = languages should be usually based on the autonym of
the language. This will result in collisions (e.g. in one country there are=
three languages called Pong), which have to be resolved somehow (e.g.
slovako/slovino). Also the place structure for a type-4 fu'ivla is &quo= t;x1
reflects Almonian language/culture in aspect x2"; for the language
specifically, use a type-3 based on "bangu".

The ISO codes are based on the autonym, so it amounts to th= e same thing; Croatian is, for example, hrv, reflecting "hrvatski.&quo= t;

Re: the place structure--the idea that language and cul= ture are inherently linked is what we are trying to get away from... Or wha= t I would like to see Lojban get away from, anyway. =A0And, since the idea = seemed to be to use cmene for cultural traits, the type-4 definition could = simply be(come) "x1 reflects English language in aspect x2", no? = =A0Or am I missing something here, too.

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