From 3_pOzSwkJBpECwJDv7AA317v36.x97694wv819916z1C9FAD.x97@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Mar 31 11:27:36 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3_pOzSwkJBpECwJDv7AA317v36.x97694wv819916z1C9FAD.x97@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nx2dY-0005BM-1E for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:27:35 -0700 Received: by gwb1 with SMTP id 1sf368247gwb.16 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:27:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:date :in-reply-to:x-ip:references:user-agent:x-http-useragent:received :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=HAPTJsEl8TYe1R3eiKtpZDGqeLLb/s8SOo5sy2ZNpNk=; b=J2VdNyQKKXat7LDIAL9UGZGsOYhplI9eSF5xLelzgiFpm3YJqPSQlKnPMcPtKKNSXZ Mduu28ciWfZ/UruJxuS1XWFV7ne4ip3rYAnkZdSjztLtX4Vdy7JSKFzdDEvTEagkK6sG ExZq6jqQLvgsIAZ3mwgXDrleQMd/eZqOfAxvo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip :references:user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=cU/W9liIPnyjVctNksqfWGAWL15dkQZ2csWSmMfmrpuoNVnb/5lFULwCYzV9kJuSjy oiAtF8YyPLnPs/2JyoHCb7HPURn3ro8q28Z2iewotAxIGPbfmtF2WCy5a8bO7KOWXjE6 GkI0kjXMK4Ny+Rr89NrDwjpV01kP/LEOwCdAE= Received: by 10.101.27.34 with SMTP id e34mr2399anj.48.1270060030827; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:27:10 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.141.28 with SMTP id t28ls167745ann.5.p; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.133.34 with SMTP id k34mr37218ann.23.1270060029090; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.133.34 with SMTP id k34mr37216ann.23.1270060029020; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw0-f63.google.com (mail-gw0-f63.google.com [74.125.83.63]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 12si521735gxk.10.2010.03.31.11.27.09; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rbysamppi@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.63 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.63; Received: by gwb15 with SMTP id 15so438847gwb.8 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:27:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by i25g2000yqm.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:27:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100331182202.GL3000@nvg.org> X-IP: 150.135.210.16 References: <20100331182202.GL3000@nvg.org> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_3; en-us) AppleWebKit/531.22.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Safari/531.22.7,gzip(gfe) Received: by 10.150.242.2 with SMTP id p2mr12930ybh.78.1270060028734; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <417b91fd-95d8-45ed-8070-acac84ddcfaa@i25g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Summary: Cultural fu'ivla From: symuyn To: lojban X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rbysamppi@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.63 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rbysamppi@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: rbysamppi@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/6edf3f52e6f491ba X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/b8da771c44ba7ef1 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not that I'm for or against completely removing gismu, but I'm just wondering: is it possible for gismu to be deprecated? I was thinking of Robin L. Powell's idea of strict Lojban versioning, which would make such deprecation possible. :) But, yeah=85the best idea right now is definitely to just make a lot of fu'ivla and getting people to use them. Dealing with cultural/landmass/ etc. gismu should come after that. On Mar 31, 11:22=A0am, Arnt Richard Johansen wrote: > On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 10:17:24AM -0700, Christopher Doty wrote: > > But, before I do any of that, I'd like to make sure that a) people seem= generally of the opinion that some change like this is probably a good ide= a, > > Re 1, 2 and 5: gismu are generally neither created nor removed. The chang= e you outline would be the most radical change to gismu space in the histor= y of Lojban. It would invalidate much existing text, and is therefore unlik= ely to be accepted. > > For examples of gismu changes that might considered by the BPFK, seehttp:= //www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section:+gismu+Issues > > Re 3, 4 and 6: fu'ivla like this are being created all the time, and is a= good thing IMO. But care should be taken to make them as close to any rele= vant autonyms as possible. > > > b) that this is the right way to go about it, > > Only the LLG can change the gismu, but anyone can make fu'ivla. I suggest= you go the latter route exclusively. > > Re 4: it may prove difficult to make a workable mapping from ISO 639-3 co= des to fu'ivla. Such a mapping would necessarily be quite opaque, which wou= ld hinder adoption. I suggest using fu'ivla based entirely on autonyms. Mak= ing good fu'ivla based on autonyms requires some knowledge of the source la= nguage, which means that it cannot be done automatically on the basis of a = list of autonyms. > > > and c) that folks are ok with a relative newbie like me taking point in= coordinating things. > > Not sure what you mean by =93coordinating=94. A lot of this can be done o= n an ad-hoc basis, but requires some quite arcane knowledge on the part of = whoever actually coins the word, especially when it comes to fu'ivla. > > -- > Arnt Richard Johansen =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0http://arj.nvg.org/ > [T]he savvy DXer will usually bet a pair of nickels he can pinpoint the D= XCC > country of the "chopity-chow-pit chow-chow-pi-chow" even before he hears = the > call sign. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 -John F. Lindholm, QST vol. 66 no. 3 p. 83 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.