From 3tr6zSwoJBnQbbddSeTaSkYeSad.UgedgbTSfYggYdWYjgmhk.Uge@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Mar 31 14:29:51 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3tr6zSwoJBnQbbddSeTaSkYeSad.UgedgbTSfYggYdWYjgmhk.Uge@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nx5Tw-0000sK-4N for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:29:51 -0700 Received: by vws1 with SMTP id 1sf1281527vws.16 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:29:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PtXYxq1yFJIV2gk5DR6432y4nQetnsdVoUI9u2+oB0s=; b=CI91d24GvX09//XHr42hhFqNShRyC3Hrs7s2gNrCQ1eySekTb2rd1+C/B72qQkIw25 ZJZ8PA95Hj7YzIhyTLG9XwAq22KpqxFkS1fIiOksTnEFrewfh1Glnw6de+MUSAZoITM0 +VpUpK0NYZPRk5gGZcd1ZlgP8v6bbbh6FJHNI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=MQZRMZ03Js6UHJMKwN65O8isFb3mDzP+dc+sq+PKLRow56NHCt0gTazVEMu5GK3P2o ttEBJJKm3KbV3cgYh93pbAneQrrIrFUdi5DP9EmKvVZgIoIYNT6ejNfvPq94CTH+1Hgn DNiMAdji8Culx/Px/Led+PihOM1wt5turYPfw= Received: by 10.220.109.39 with SMTP id h39mr25318vcp.42.1270070966308; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:29:26 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.47.17 with SMTP id l17ls212379vcf.5.p; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.168.71 with SMTP id t7mr1591vcy.9.1270070964318; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.168.71 with SMTP id t7mr1590vcy.9.1270070964295; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com (qw-out-1920.google.com [74.125.92.149]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 27si17268155vws.5.2010.03.31.14.29.23; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.149 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.92.149; Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 14so184396qwa.56 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:29:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.91.67 with HTTP; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:29:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4BB3921C.50308@lojban.org> <4BB3A8E7.3000500@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 18:29:22 -0300 Received: by 10.229.213.133 with SMTP id gw5mr121898qcb.13.1270070963026; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Summary: Cultural fu'ivla From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.149 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/6edf3f52e6f491ba X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/44bf3924913cb4c7 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Christopher Doty wr= ote: > > Unfortunately, the phonotactics of Lojban, being so restricted, this is > always going to be a problem, I think. =C2=A0A greater issue caused by 'c= ' (whose > idea was that letter, anyway?!), I assume it was JCB's idea, since Lojban inherited it from Loglan. It's not as crazy as it may seem though, given that: Every phoneme that could get its IPA representation, got it. The two that could not, [=CA=92] and [=CA=83], had to choose between: c, j,= q, w The obvious choice for [=CA=92] was "j", and that only really left "c" or "q" for [=CA=83]. [=CA=83] is not really such a bad sound for a "soft" c. > as it could be, phonetically, /s, k, or > tc/. =C2=A0My gut reaction is to go for the sound over the actual letter. Ouch! What's the point of using the codes then? > In terms of the ISO codes, the original idea (in my head, at least) would= be > to have the fu'ivla forms based on the ISO to as large as an extent as > possible, but fully acknowledging that it might not always be. If the transformation ISO -> fu'ivla is not univocal and preferrably reversible, it loses most of its appeal, at least for me. > Developing these isn't really all that hard. =C2=A0Here's a sample of wha= t I came > up with earlier, which took maybe 20-30 minutes. =C2=A0In all of the belo= w, > everything before the ' is derived as much as possible from the language > code, the second part from the language family ISO code. > Language name in English (native name) fu'ivla (actual language ISO > code/language family ISO code) > Afar (Afaraf) fra'afa (aar/afa) > Albanian (Shqip) ski'ine (sqi/ine) > Amharic (-amharinynya-) xma'afa (amh/afa) This one fails. "xm" is not a valid initial. ".amxafa" works fine though. > Argonese (Argon=C3=A9s) gra'ine (arg/ine) Why not ".argine"? > Assamese (=E0=A6=85=E0=A6=B8=E0=A6=AE=E0=A7=80=E0=A6=AF=E0=A6=BC=E0=A6=BE= ) sma'ine (asm/ine) > Belarusian (=D0=91=D0=B5=D0=BB=D0=B0=D1=80=D1=83=D1=81=D0=BA=D0=B0=D1=8F)= ble'ine (bel/ine) > Breton (brezhoneg) bre'ine (bre/ine) > Chechen (=D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=85=D1=87=D0=B8=D0=B9=D0=BD =D0=BC=D0=BE=D1=82=D1= =82) tce'acu (che/cau) OK, don't let me stop you. :) mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.