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Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:55:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.168.197 with SMTP id v5mr659664iby.27.1270090552265; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:55:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.168.197 with SMTP id v5mr659663iby.27.1270090552239; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:55:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f199.google.com (mail-yw0-f199.google.com [209.85.211.199]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si1115305iwn.7.2010.03.31.19.55.51; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of leos.molas@gmail.com designates 209.85.211.199 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.211.199; Received: by ywh37 with SMTP id 37so157361ywh.2 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.233.1 with SMTP id f1mr1202645anh.134.1270090543585; Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([190.97.37.224]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4sm1854649ywi.51.2010.03.31.19.55.40 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 31 Mar 2010 19:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4BB40B31.3060504@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:55:45 -0300 From: Leo Molas User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; es-AR; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Summary: Cultural fu'ivla References: <4BB3E38E.4040503@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig28FEF78B87DEAABE47CF7E91" X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of leos.molas@gmail.com designates 209.85.211.199 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=leos.molas@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: leos.molas@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/6edf3f52e6f491ba X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/2c07c12f0eeedd8b Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig28FEF78B87DEAABE47CF7E91 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable El 31/03/2010 09:33 p.m., Jorge Llamb=EDas escribi=F3: > On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 9:06 PM, Leo Molas wrote= : >> What I propose is: >> >> 1- Let the fu'ivla have another form (for example CVCCV'V). >=20 > That one happens to be a lujvo form, so it can't be a fu'ivla. >=20 > See: > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Exhaustive+list+of+short+fu'ivla+forms > for more options. >=20 > But I don't really think it's such a good idea to be restricted to any > particular form of fu'ivla. >=20 >> 2- Make fu'ivla type 3 (I think) with a prefix (like gug or gu'e) >=20 > type 3 prefixes must end in a consonant: CVC-, CCVC-, or CVCC- >=20 >> I'm more inclined to the last one, since with the prefix you can tell >> really fast if it's a country or not (since with the CCV'VCV structure= , >> there might be some other fu'ivla with that structure). >=20 > That's the advantage of type-3, The disadvantage is that they sound > more weird, less like normal lojban words, because of the forced > consonantal syllable.. Yep, they sound awful :( >=20 >> Using experimental gismu has many many problems... >> >> 1- They are experimental (ta da! waiting my invitation to the tautolog= y >> club!) >> 2- If we could invent all the gismu for all the countries, we'll have >> (how many countries exists? 400? 500?) about a 25% of the gismu in tha= t >> particular area. >=20 > Why is that a disadvantage? You will only learn the ones you use. > Whether they are gismu form or fu'ivla form it will be the same > number. =2E..... I see your point. I've always seen gismu as the have-to-know words. >=20 >> 3- If we don't (as now) we aren't culturally neutral. >> 4- xorxes said CCV'VCV is restrictive... well, gismu is more restricti= ve. >=20 > That's true, but on the other hand, they are the words that feel the > most Lojbanic. If the gismu "gento" had not existed when I started > learning Lojban I would have been pissed off, and I would have created > it (or maybe "xento") as soon as I felt comfortable using the > language. Heh. When I saw "gento" as a gismu I thought you were behind that... Nevertheless, the whole problem would be n=BA 3, the cultural neutrality (or the lack of it). We could, as you said, use the experimental gismu. There are some missing (lots of them) countries. To be culturally neutral, we should add some. If we do this, we are in danger of being slaughtered by lojbab. Of course, the experimental gismu could be added some day. But, in the meantime, creating fu'ivla would be the best (and I think only) option. mu'o mi'e .leos. --=20 My lojban journal: http://learninglojban.wordpress.com My personal blog: http://leomolas.tumblr.com --------------enig28FEF78B87DEAABE47CF7E91 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJLtAs3AAoJEGPqAjdF26uEPhkIAImaSwIps8Amp7joBXsLFJt1 y+c6QvxZbYBJ5I82fG2kEdUxcrlrdRnvwJl+g2FibfqiogOZw9cdWjc6Hzwcpbv1 Uhwfp2HoAzDbHfUBl/hSg/ffi2Ud4vU6h0x+7PG+l8e7amtvoWUZj0Ljfq8n4K7i kuwbABosnhlMVYJi0jFd4i9nd8jBH1BOxsx4s9BpRiSuuqFuFBLeE8kvH5lVnm0H uanxVV1P/G+lLBy8ZS4kb0qcmDw6tLuFpakIhn6ZQJ+O4rWc4z5MKeq0MN9gqBH9 jluYwKa/TSTrvnW6SZybjbg3j0+FV16VLhloNI+bsyJWhvT6bj2bIfBk+i+FH1Y= =0sEL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig28FEF78B87DEAABE47CF7E91--