From 3IGm3SwoJBowzz11q2ryq8w2qy1.s4214zrq3w44w1uw74A58.s42@groups.bounces.google.com Sat Apr 03 09:13:46 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3IGm3SwoJBowzz11q2ryq8w2qy1.s4214zrq3w44w1uw74A58.s42@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Ny5yf-0003YK-7l for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:13:46 -0700 Received: by vws5 with SMTP id 5sf4256145vws.16 for ; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:13:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cy3ZuoUOFDHbpA8uaj8Josg0fExwKw8E+lsLUkgRMJc=; b=aiHPmmq5RHApHGKSUYFRpAHytEbgPeq3eW59H9ObKNcF0UpJnpdd4B/HzgB8K2SVCw PsiV3LTJ82hhdbKRY4VWEz2JXivdKOspPpngkx+CpmOn8n+EE02tP3wBt97E1a3mQIQg BbgU2F0xiSc+ec9ln3GkOegNsvQp7OOJJJGUo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=SY7RcycCKGRIn0VXQibvaXyt0loBKb4aZYCm4WupDwzR1iCf+gJVIfFUNMyxMnNJIE dfi7/WnXH+sdhYmW/9paWG2EeP739mu8vEIu29DmTAMK4sXmhdNclph/ZrN1SuXx5xPU r+8JhqOuU0JU6TPq7fs0eCV39BWVzg+qH2wOc= Received: by 10.220.50.28 with SMTP id x28mr288602vcf.50.1270311200654; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:13:20 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.79.3 with SMTP id n3ls818422vck.3.p; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:13:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.165.8 with SMTP id g8mr889722vcy.1.1270311199536; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:13:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.165.8 with SMTP id g8mr889720vcy.1.1270311199500; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:13:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f180.google.com (mail-qy0-f180.google.com [209.85.221.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 34si25087551vws.3.2010.04.03.09.13.18; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.180; Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so50129qyk.26 for ; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:13:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.91.67 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Apr 2010 09:13:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201004012357.49645.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 13:13:18 -0300 Received: by 10.229.223.140 with SMTP id ik12mr6033731qcb.98.1270311198181; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] So what do we say for Swedish? (was "Summary: Cultural fu'ivla") From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/b7cc2efa3fc3ba64 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/6e49d30271f8eee9 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Christopher Doty wr= ote: > > I don't think it would take 100, but I'm not sure of the specific number; Wikipedia says ISO 639-5 has 114 codes for language families: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_639 > in > part, this is because our decisions about how to group things could chang= e > the number. =A0As I mentioned yesterday, we could split Niger-Congo into = Bantu > and, basically, "other" Niger-Congo. Likewise with Chinese (which, > linguistically, is either a worthless term, or a family and not a languag= e). > =A0There are only five or six major ones on the list that I've been looki= ng > at, but if we keep to the highest level classifications possible, it > shouldn't be too bad. But if we go with ISO for languages, it's hard to justify using a different arbitrary preference for families. > I think using the language families has any number of advantages. =A0Firs= t, I > was envisioning this as something that would be both useful to linguists = and > easily learnable. =A0I think a list of alphabetized language names in Loj= ban > would be really scary, and possibly worthless, if they all started exactl= y > the same (granted, you could sort some other way, but still). =A0An > alphabetized list with family names at the beginning, though, would actua= lly > group languages together by family. =A0Plus, I really just think learning > words which are half the same as any other word for any other language is > going to make learning language names REALLY difficult, and thus likely > cause these to never be adopted. It's only the first out of four syllables that is common to all. And the other three syllables correspond each to one of the letters of the code, so if you know the code you know the fu'ivla, and vice versa. > I don't think length violates neutrality--even if it does, we can't do mu= ch > about it given the restrictions of Lojban phonotactics. With my proposal every language uses four syllables. The number of letters varies slightly if you don't count the apostrophe, and depending on the three prefixes. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.