From 3VJO3SwUKBuofafgedaSQde.OaYXaVNMZSaaSXQSdagbe.OaY@groups.bounces.google.com Sat Apr 03 12:13:53 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3VJO3SwUKBuofafgedaSQde.OaYXaVNMZSaaSXQSdagbe.OaY@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Ny8mv-0007BV-4Q for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:13:53 -0700 Received: by vws5 with SMTP id 5sf4396892vws.16 for ; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:13:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3BGL+XCHEbTTCw2lfAFJXBOL3K0p0l1aeUXV8d2TSY0=; b=LmJ+toKJlpND9lNCJbklBh8tEP7lCAsAcQFzwupXHu0xcfnY5bXYgQmOYxMOiX98fY LXLiYOeoH0lYPTFePnphzIB37aU69szlj1RO9KlDxh9Yo/x3Z6+aIcmlExTiZDyMvgyY HUedqlzIfGt7Q4Fyo91cgJviYNtFKWzicZwpI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=EZTs2tYg+sHw2KJCnrNpZtFi/3MO0uzMWewMnGU8MQWoMTTq3ZrCGdD+TrIjTdBFHN 67Rd/JzUJ7uGX2lUUHMisKMayzXvcvd6yWpm9ADRubNv3mzpnJf6eNaHlFNUvveISJJF SNtDBLvY6V1oKIUcyEhdDC7WG8HnPVCvoJG3o= Received: by 10.220.126.222 with SMTP id d30mr308236vcs.19.1270322004387; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:13:24 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.47.17 with SMTP id l17ls843398vcf.5.p; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.4.37 with SMTP id 37mr940982vcp.16.1270322002807; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:13:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.4.37 with SMTP id 37mr940981vcp.16.1270322002776; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:13:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com (web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.37.190]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id 31si25449888vws.4.2010.04.03.12.13.21; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 206.190.37.190 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of totus@rogers.com) client-ip=206.190.37.190; Received: (qmail 916 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Apr 2010 19:13:21 -0000 Message-ID: <248150.99542.qm@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: XLrrrHUVM1kj3.HW7N12tyObX_6S3_NPDEpM6rsAjxG7MHw s.pWdd1kxbCfjjG.IoIs6a0uciTZkbAHVlO6nDZY_KD0xakkITSgRmaBROFX E2OKOUKk8rMsbJfSdeLwBKXZeAwXg68BhIIA1.r5GjZBV3nPg86jCVnQnhd1 0Rp9XLhaY3LqU9dM.56P32SwErsCbT_VUI54gohMXfvO7EYnORzyzHXwZ7dR v0A7AywUnMMvXZjz.QPBo6xrlAuIExT5rz5zwobusBdW08wWN4wtoTwK.2n3 8dKJxcbWYvZwC6QHZ7UNWO29QQCGUE.TCVOtr7ZlLsD2sXMczdAs5pGe6l6Q Ir4qOFRBI Received: from [99.229.170.85] by web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:13:21 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/324.3 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 References: <4BB6928D.7000307@gmail.com> <4BB73F28.1090701@gmail.com> <4BB7861D.9020703@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 12:13:21 -0700 (PDT) From: "A. PIEKARSKI" Subject: Re: [lojban] Open approach (was "cultural fu'ivla") To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: <4BB7861D.9020703@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 206.190.37.190 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of totus@rogers.com) smtp.mail=totus@rogers.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@rogers.com X-Original-Sender: totus@rogers.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/ddb610b9695dff92 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/a0f1a0fd4d1a1091 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I wonder why the Aland Islands (which belong to Finland)=20 have their own country code, but Tibet doesn't.=A0 Could it=20 be that politics are interfering, albeit indirectly, even with=20 our decidedly non-political exercise? Needless to say, this is a comment on ISO, and not on=20 Leo's great work. totus ----- Original Message ---- > From: Leo Molas > To: lojban@googlegroups.com > Sent: Sat, April 3, 2010 2:17:01 PM > Subject: Re: [lojban] Open approach (was "cultural fu'ivla") >=20 > El 03/04/2010 10:44 a.m., Jorge Llamb=EDas escribi=F3: > On Sat, Apr 3, 2010=20 > at 10:14 AM, Leo Molas <> href=3D"mailto:leos.molas@gmail.com">leos.molas= @gmail.com>=20 > wrote: >>> >>> AR -> gugde'aru >>> US=20 > -> gugde'usu >>> AO -> gugde'a'o >>> LU ->=20 > gugdelu'u >>> RW -> gugderuve >>> CL ->=20 > gugdeculu >>> SE (Sweden) -> gugdesu'e >> >>=20 > Thanks xorxes in correcting it :) but I have a doubt: why=20 > {gugdelu'u} >> for example, doesn't break down? >=20 >=20 > Because "gd" is not a valid initial, so "gu gdelu'u" is not possible. >=20 > There is no other possibility. The only stressed syllable is LU, and > it=20 > contains a consonant cluster, so it is a brivla, and since it is > not a=20 > lujvo form, it is a valid fu'ivla form. If it was "gugde lu'u" > it would=20 > have the stress on GUG, stress is very important to determine >=20 > brivla. >=20 >> I have to admit that the method doesn't give us a=20 > beautiful result >> (neither a resembling one), and I even didn't like=20 > at all at first, but >> it's the plainest, it can live among other=20 > methods easily, and doesn't >> need too much work (if I, or whoever,=20 > make a program for it). What do >> you (jbopre) think? >=20 >=20 > It's even simpler than the method for languages, because it uses the >=20 > same prefix for all cases. The resulting forms, with four syllables, > are=20 > not too long, and (unlike type-3 fu'ivla) they do sound like > ordinary=20 > lojban words. It's true that they don't resemble the name of > the=20 > country, but the code is fairly transparent. >=20 > I have to say I=20 > didn't like the idea of using the ISO-codes to form > fu'ivla at first,=20 > but now I think it's not such a bad idea at all, as > long as the method=20 > used is simple and transparent. >=20 > mu'o mi'e xorxes >=20 >=20 Well, I did a little python script that generates the country=20 > fu'ivla. This is a extract from the output: IO ->=20 > gugde'i'o BN -> gugdebunu BG -> gugdebugu BF ->=20 > gugdebufu BI -> gugdebu'i KH -> gugdekuxe CM ->=20 > gugdecumu CA -> gugdecu'a I also did one that generates a=20 > dictionary-like definition: gugde'i'o =3D x1 is the country with the=20 > code ISO-3166 "IO" (British Indian Ocean Territory) for people=20 > x2 gugdebunu =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "BN"=20 > (Brunei Darussalam) for people x2 gugdebugu =3D x1 is the country with=20 > the code ISO-3166 "BG" (Bulgaria) for people x2 gugdebufu =3D x1 is the=20 > country with the code ISO-3166 "BF" (Burkina Faso) for people=20 > x2 gugdebu'i =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "BI" (Burundi)=20 > for people x2 gugdekuxe =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166=20 > "KH" (Cambodia) for people x2 gugdecumu =3D x1 is the country with the=20 > code ISO-3166 "CM" (Cameroon) for people x2 gugdecu'a =3D x1 is the=20 > country with the code ISO-3166 "CA" (Canada) for people x2 I extract=20 > the info from > target=3D_blank >http://www.iso.org/iso/list-en1-semic-3.= txt (it's in the=20 > attachments too, as iso-countries.txt). country-fuhivla1.py is a python=20 > program that gives the first map above, and its output is in the file=20 > result.txt country-fuhivla2.py is almost the same, but it gives the=20 > dictionary-like output. All of it is in resultdic.txt The language=20 > fu'ivla can be parsed as well, only with a few modifications (but it would be=20 > a really really bigger output file). I want to insist in the fact that=20 > this is a really easy way to coin the fu'ivla, it treat all countries the=20 > same way (so is culturally neutral), and can exist among other fu'ivla coined=20 > with another method. mu'o mi'e .leos. --=20 My lojban journal: > href=3D"http://learninglojban.wordpress.com" target=3D= _blank=20 > >http://learninglojban.wordpress.com My personal blog: > href=3D"http://leomolas.tumblr.com" target=3D_blank=20 > >http://leomolas.tumblr.com --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.