From 3fJO3SwcJBhM4HC4xBFz5t14.v75472ut6z77z4xzA7D8B.v75@groups.bounces.google.com Sat Apr 03 12:14:32 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f160.google.com ([209.85.211.160]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3fJO3SwcJBhM4HC4xBFz5t14.v75472ut6z77z4xzA7D8B.v75@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Ny8nZ-0007Dh-Kx for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:14:32 -0700 Received: by ywh32 with SMTP id 32sf3457793ywh.28 for ; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:14:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=xJxy5gLxvZ6R5NvYfUYnH7c5DcVOt+HyddJyr+GMb/k=; b=dFbLqbCmA+bBbirIJzOx+amnnoOjCj2duZnpEpcNqTJDMYGQbJPrjvLeaR4BcH99++ La8PoE47w41/R06Yd+RHMG2rOfSA9zldSiZFGktIU3890yF6qJ3sP/Mqmr6az/NKTV/k joPVBrsURO8LD+hR1me+zxkS3FYY0VLKTQ6WQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=GBhKXnAIkSjgefUgIVlg2dWjIxX9plvIre6YthUYuSJpYDO7+FMhXh+RJW46YUIWKb 68lOhBvowNx2PIsot6HzaIypuTVS3NKymbTNdYVFNUavhXaFzTh3yzf7VEnwufjPc8rW wc2ejPILhpNdHDB1gu5GUPHgeex/4QWEY6xlg= Received: by 10.91.121.9 with SMTP id y9mr480070agm.33.1270322044865; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:14:04 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.91.8 with SMTP id t8ls670368agl.2.p; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.91.49.14 with SMTP id b14mr6161168agk.14.1270322043755; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.91.49.14 with SMTP id b14mr6161167agk.14.1270322043705; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx0-f175.google.com (mail-yx0-f175.google.com [209.85.210.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si476534yxe.0.2010.04.03.12.14.02; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.175; Received: by yxe5 with SMTP id 5so1036675yxe.3 for ; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:14:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.242.9 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Apr 2010 12:14:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4BB7861D.9020703@gmail.com> References: <4BB6928D.7000307@gmail.com> <4BB73F28.1090701@gmail.com> <4BB7861D.9020703@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 15:14:02 -0400 Received: by 10.100.224.10 with SMTP id w10mr6512834ang.183.1270322042389; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Open approach (was "cultural fu'ivla") From: MorphemeAddict To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/ddb610b9695dff92 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/e579a9e5c9ff49e7 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163623ad37164e12048359e61c --00163623ad37164e12048359e61c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was skeptical at first of using ISO codes for country names, but I like this suggestion. stevo On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Leo Molas wrote: > El 03/04/2010 10:44 a.m., Jorge Llamb=EDas escribi=F3: > > On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Leo Molas > wrote: > >>> > >>> AR -> gugde'aru > >>> US -> gugde'usu > >>> AO -> gugde'a'o > >>> LU -> gugdelu'u > >>> RW -> gugderuve > >>> CL -> gugdeculu > >>> SE (Sweden) -> gugdesu'e > >> > >> Thanks xorxes in correcting it :) but I have a doubt: why {gugdelu'u} > >> for example, doesn't break down? > > > > Because "gd" is not a valid initial, so "gu gdelu'u" is not possible. > > There is no other possibility. The only stressed syllable is LU, and > > it contains a consonant cluster, so it is a brivla, and since it is > > not a lujvo form, it is a valid fu'ivla form. If it was "gugde lu'u" > > it would have the stress on GUG, stress is very important to determine > > brivla. > > > >> I have to admit that the method doesn't give us a beautiful result > >> (neither a resembling one), and I even didn't like at all at first, bu= t > >> it's the plainest, it can live among other methods easily, and doesn't > >> need too much work (if I, or whoever, make a program for it). What do > >> you (jbopre) think? > > > > It's even simpler than the method for languages, because it uses the > > same prefix for all cases. The resulting forms, with four syllables, > > are not too long, and (unlike type-3 fu'ivla) they do sound like > > ordinary lojban words. It's true that they don't resemble the name of > > the country, but the code is fairly transparent. > > > > I have to say I didn't like the idea of using the ISO-codes to form > > fu'ivla at first, but now I think it's not such a bad idea at all, as > > long as the method used is simple and transparent. > > > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > Well, I did a little python script that generates the country fu'ivla. > This is a extract from the output: > > IO -> gugde'i'o > > BN -> gugdebunu > > BG -> gugdebugu > > BF -> gugdebufu > > BI -> gugdebu'i > > KH -> gugdekuxe > > CM -> gugdecumu > > CA -> gugdecu'a > > > I also did one that generates a dictionary-like definition: > > > gugde'i'o =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "IO" (British > Indian Ocean Territory) for people x2 > > gugdebunu =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "BN" (Brunei > Darussalam) for people x2 > > gugdebugu =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "BG" (Bulgaria) fo= r > people x2 > > gugdebufu =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "BF" (Burkina Faso= ) > for people x2 > > gugdebu'i =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "BI" (Burundi) for > people x2 > > gugdekuxe =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "KH" (Cambodia) fo= r > people x2 > > gugdecumu =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "CM" (Cameroon) fo= r > people x2 > > gugdecu'a =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "CA" (Canada) for > people x2 > > I extract the info from http://www.iso.org/iso/list-en1-semic-3.txt > (it's in the attachments too, as iso-countries.txt). > > country-fuhivla1.py is a python program that gives the first map above, > and its output is in the file result.txt > > country-fuhivla2.py is almost the same, but it gives the dictionary-like > output. All of it is in resultdic.txt > > The language fu'ivla can be parsed as well, only with a few > modifications (but it would be a really really bigger output file). > > I want to insist in the fact that this is a really easy way to coin the > fu'ivla, it treat all countries the same way (so is culturally neutral), > and can exist among other fu'ivla coined with another method. > > mu'o mi'e .leos. > > -- > My lojban journal: http://learninglojban.wordpress.com > My personal blog: http://leomolas.tumblr.com > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --00163623ad37164e12048359e61c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I was skeptical at first of using ISO codes for country names, but I l= ike this suggestion.
=A0
stevo

On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Leo Molas <leos.molas@gmail.co= m> wrote:
El 03/04/2010 10:44 a.m., Jorge = Llamb=EDas escribi=F3:
> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Leo Molas <leos.molas@gmail.com> wrote:
&= gt;>>
>>> AR -> gugde'aru
>>> US ->= gugde'usu
>>> AO -> gugde'a'o
>>> LU -> gugdelu= 9;u
>>> RW -> gugderuve
>>> CL -> gugdeculu>>> SE (Sweden) -> gugdesu'e
>>
>> Than= ks xorxes in correcting it :) but I have a doubt: why {gugdelu'u}
>> for example, doesn't break down?
>
> Because "= ;gd" is not a valid initial, so "gu gdelu'u" is not poss= ible.
> There is no other possibility. The only stressed syllable is = LU, and
> it contains a consonant cluster, so it is a brivla, and since it is> not a lujvo form, it is a valid fu'ivla form. If it was "gug= de lu'u"
> it would have the stress on GUG, stress is very i= mportant to determine
> brivla.
>
>> I have to admit that the method doesn'= t give us a beautiful result
>> (neither a resembling one), and I = even didn't like at all at first, but
>> it's the plainest= , it can live among other methods easily, and doesn't
>> need too much work (if I, or whoever, make a program for it). What= do
>> you (jbopre) think?
>
> It's even simpler t= han the method for languages, because it uses the
> same prefix for a= ll cases. The resulting forms, with four syllables,
> are not too long, and (unlike type-3 fu'ivla) they do sound like> ordinary lojban words. It's true that they don't resemble th= e name of
> the country, but the code is fairly transparent.
><= br> > I have to say I didn't like the idea of using the ISO-codes to for= m
> fu'ivla at first, but now I think it's not such a bad ide= a at all, as
> long as the method used is simple and transparent.
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
Well, I did a = little python script that generates the country fu'ivla.
This is a e= xtract from the output:

IO -> gugde'i'o

BN -> g= ugdebunu

BG -> gugdebugu

BF -> gugdebufu

BI -> gugdebu= 9;i

KH -> gugdekuxe

CM -> gugdecumu

CA -> gug= decu'a


I also did one that generates a dictionary-like defin= ition:


gugde'i'o =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 &quo= t;IO" (British
Indian Ocean Territory) for people x2

gugdebu= nu =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "BN" (Brunei
D= arussalam) for people x2

gugdebugu =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "BG" (= Bulgaria) for
people x2

gugdebufu =3D x1 is the country with the = code ISO-3166 "BF" (Burkina Faso)
for people x2

gugdebu= 'i =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "BI" (Burundi= ) for
people x2

gugdekuxe =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 &qu= ot;KH" (Cambodia) for
people x2

gugdecumu =3D x1 is the coun= try with the code ISO-3166 "CM" (Cameroon) for
people x2
gugdecu'a =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "CA" (= Canada) for
people x2

I extract the info from http://www.iso.org/i= so/list-en1-semic-3.txt
(it's in the attachments too, as iso-countries.txt).

country-fuh= ivla1.py is a python program that gives the first map above,
and its out= put is in the file result.txt

country-fuhivla2.py is almost the same= , but it gives the dictionary-like
output. All of it is in resultdic.txt

The language fu'ivla can b= e parsed as well, only with a few
modifications (but it would be a reall= y really bigger output file).

I want to insist in the fact that this= is a really easy way to coin the
fu'ivla, it treat all countries the same way (so is culturally neutral)= ,
and can exist among other fu'ivla coined with another method.

mu'o mi'e .leos.

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