From 3L5u3SwoJBs0BD751v0A1Bz5t14.v75472ut6z77z4xzA7D8B.v75@groups.bounces.google.com Sat Apr 03 12:47:20 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f160.google.com ([209.85.211.160]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3L5u3SwoJBs0BD751v0A1Bz5t14.v75472ut6z77z4xzA7D8B.v75@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Ny9JM-0000Z6-40 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:47:19 -0700 Received: by ywh32 with SMTP id 32sf3465978ywh.28 for ; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:47:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:message-id:date :from:to:reply-to:subject:in-reply-to:x-mailer:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url :x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=wQpT1g+b7NaJKmUXZgNyEaIRGp/MtDgZZxlnKYY5xpA=; b=BmEg7OJn20FG0q7482L6eA5qkmI3S9wQA6Jr05PKJO3nkTu7Ci5iCXTbWuq5d8G7AM iwwteRFdiYFlmJFYh39ZsTHd5Z6fsAtw7b0xaLcIWgoJ1LSXy74G3Mz7pzHlVqTLQ6i4 h34bi9yrZz2fGv/iiaZrJM16NnEYx2B4/Uco8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:to:reply-to:subject :in-reply-to:x-mailer:mime-version:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=H+CoJY/dQzkQBW/4wdvGnOnYvuE4x/rAWIqJ7kStMhjsH6zk4FqcZ7nppSDJVfVQ4n WgePDnFs3Pv4q8KZlypkCGDClPT6hhX3Aiqe5tKtLxGLqpWvGw7bzUMb1WLwYm8PV7cv U1nvQsqGnJoyJsz67eeDAwwKTVw34dBreaNYo= Received: by 10.101.128.18 with SMTP id f18mr113338ann.18.1270324015218; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:46:55 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.101.152.4 with SMTP id e4ls754097ano.4.p; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.179.37 with SMTP id g37mr2003410anp.17.1270324014576; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.101.179.37 with SMTP id g37mr2003409anp.17.1270324014525; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx0-f177.google.com (mail-yx0-f177.google.com [209.85.210.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 17si871375gxk.4.2010.04.03.12.46.53; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:46:53 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of suomichris@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.177; Received: by yxe7 with SMTP id 7so314066yxe.19 for ; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:46:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.60.9 with SMTP id i9mr4263307aga.102.1270324013141; Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:46:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.palm.com ([173.152.177.250]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 4sm2568112yxd.16.2010.04.03.12.46.49 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4bb79b2c.c401be0a.73bc.ffffb8b5@mx.google.com> Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 12:46:45 -0700 From: "Christopher Doty" To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Open approach (was "cultural fu'ivla") In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Palm webOS v1.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of suomichris@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=suomichris@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: suomichris@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/ddb610b9695dff92 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/619d5685191d40ac Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Alternative__boundary__1270324010051 --Alternative__boundary__1270324010051 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I quite like this for countries as well, but still not for languages, altho= ugh I'm hard-pressed to justify that feeling--except to say that the list o= f countries is much, much smaller than the list of languages, and thus seem= s less... Scary... Chris -- Sent from my Palm Pre On Apr 3, 2010 12:14, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:=20 I was skeptical at first of using ISO codes for country names, but I like t= his suggestion.   stevo On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Leo Molas <leos.molas@gmail.com> wrot= e: El 03/04/2010 10:44 a.m., Jorge Llamb=EDas escribi=F3: > On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Leo Molas <leos.molas@gmail.com>= ; wrote: >>> >>> AR -> gugde'aru >>> US -> gugde'usu >>> AO -> gugde'a'o >>> LU -> gugdelu'u >>> RW -> gugderuve >>> CL -> gugdeculu >>> SE (Sweden) -> gugdesu'e >> >> Thanks xorxes in correcting it :) but I have a doubt: why {gugdelu= 'u} >> for example, doesn't break down? > > Because "gd" is not a valid initial, so "gu gdelu'u" is not possible. > There is no other possibility. The only stressed syllable is LU, and > it contains a consonant cluster, so it is a brivla, and since it is > not a lujvo form, it is a valid fu'ivla form. If it was "gugde lu'u" > it would have the stress on GUG, stress is very important to determine > brivla. > >> I have to admit that the method doesn't give us a beautiful result >> (neither a resembling one), and I even didn't like at all at first= , but >> it's the plainest, it can live among other methods easily, and doe= sn't >> need too much work (if I, or whoever, make a program for it). What= do >> you (jbopre) think? > > It's even simpler than the method for languages, because it uses the > same prefix for all cases. The resulting forms, with four syllables, > are not too long, and (unlike type-3 fu'ivla) they do sound like > ordinary lojban words. It's true that they don't resemble the name of > the country, but the code is fairly transparent. > > I have to say I didn't like the idea of using the ISO-codes to form > fu'ivla at first, but now I think it's not such a bad idea at all, as > long as the method used is simple and transparent. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > Well, I did a little python script that generates the country fu'ivla. This is a extract from the output: IO -> gugde'i'o BN -> gugdebunu BG -> gugdebugu BF -> gugdebufu BI -> gugdebu'i KH -> gugdekuxe CM -> gugdecumu CA -> gugdecu'a I also did one that generates a dictionary-like definition: gugde'i'o =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "IO" (British Indian Ocean Territory) for people x2 gugdebunu =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "BN" (Brunei Darussalam) for people x2 gugdebugu =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "BG" (Bulgaria) for people x2 gugdebufu =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "BF" (Burkina Faso) for people x2 gugdebu'i =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "BI" (Burundi) for people x2 gugdekuxe =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "KH" (Cambodia) for people x2 gugdecumu =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "CM" (Cameroon) for people x2 gugdecu'a =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "CA" (Canada) for people x2 I extract the info from http://www.iso.org/iso/list-en1-semic-3.txt (it's in the attachments too, as iso-countries.txt). country-fuhivla1.py is a python program that gives the first map above, and its output is in the file result.txt country-fuhivla2.py is almost the same, but it gives the dictionary-like output. All of it is in resultdic.txt The language fu'ivla can be parsed as well, only with a few modifications (but it would be a really really bigger output file). I want to insist in the fact that this is a really easy way to coin the fu'ivla, it treat all countries the same way (so is culturally neutral), and can exist among other fu'ivla coined with another method. mu'o mi'e .leos. -- My lojban journal: http://learninglojban.wordpress.com My personal blog: http://leomolas.tumblr.com --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --Alternative__boundary__1270324010051 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I quite like this for countries as well, but still not for languages, altho= ugh I'm hard-pressed to justify that feeling--except to say that the list o= f countries is much, much smaller than the list of languages, and thus seem= s less... Scary...

Chris

-- Sent from my Palm= Pre

On Apr 3, 2010 12:14= , MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:

I was skepti= cal at first of using ISO codes for country names, but I like this suggesti= on.
 
stevo

On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Leo Molas <leos.molas@gmail.co= m> wrote:
El 03/04/2010 10:44 a.m., Jorge = Llamb=EDas escribi=F3:
> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Leo Molas <leos.molas@gmail.com> wrote:
&= gt;>>
>>> AR -> gugde'aru
>>> US -> gug= de'usu
>>> AO -> gugde'a'o
>>> LU -> gugdelu'u
>&= gt;> RW -> gugderuve
>>> CL -> gugdeculu
>>&g= t; SE (Sweden) -> gugdesu'e
>>
>> Thanks xorxes in cor= recting it :) but I have a doubt: why {gugdelu'u}
>> for example, doesn't break down?
>
> Because "gd" is n= ot a valid initial, so "gu gdelu'u" is not possible.
> There is no ot= her possibility. The only stressed syllable is LU, and
> it contains a consonant cluster, so it is a brivla, and since it is> not a lujvo form, it is a valid fu'ivla form. If it was "gugde lu'u"<= br>> it would have the stress on GUG, stress is very important to determ= ine
> brivla.
>
>> I have to admit that the method doesn't gi= ve us a beautiful result
>> (neither a resembling one), and I even= didn't like at all at first, but
>> it's the plainest, it can liv= e among other methods easily, and doesn't
>> need too much work (if I, or whoever, make a program for it). What= do
>> you (jbopre) think?
>
> It's even simpler than = the method for languages, because it uses the
> same prefix for all c= ases. The resulting forms, with four syllables,
> are not too long, and (unlike type-3 fu'ivla) they do sound like
&g= t; ordinary lojban words. It's true that they don't resemble the name of> the country, but the code is fairly transparent.
>
> I have to say I didn't like the idea of using the ISO-codes to form> fu'ivla at first, but now I think it's not such a bad idea at all, as=
> long as the method used is simple and transparent.
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
Well, I did a little p= ython script that generates the country fu'ivla.
This is a extract from = the output:

IO -> gugde'i'o

BN -> gugdebunu

BG -> gugdebugu

BF -> gugdebufu

BI -> gugdebu'i<= br>
KH -> gugdekuxe

CM -> gugdecumu

CA -> gugdecu= 'a


I also did one that generates a dictionary-like definition:

gugde'i'o =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "IO" (Britis= h
Indian Ocean Territory) for people x2

gugdebunu =3D x1 is the c= ountry with the code ISO-3166 "BN" (Brunei
Darussalam) for people x2

gugdebugu =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "BG" (Bulgaria) = for
people x2

gugdebufu =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3= 166 "BF" (Burkina Faso)
for people x2

gugdebu'i =3D x1 is the cou= ntry with the code ISO-3166 "BI" (Burundi) for
people x2

gugdekuxe =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "KH= " (Cambodia) for
people x2

gugdecumu =3D x1 is the country with t= he code ISO-3166 "CM" (Cameroon) for
people x2

gugdecu'a =3D x1 is the country with the code ISO-3166 "CA" (Canada) forpeople x2

I extract the info from http://www.iso.org/iso/list-en1-se= mic-3.txt
(it's in the attachments too, as iso-countries.txt).

country-fuhivla= 1.py is a python program that gives the first map above,
and its output = is in the file result.txt

country-fuhivla2.py is almost the same, bu= t it gives the dictionary-like
output. All of it is in resultdic.txt

The language fu'ivla can be pa= rsed as well, only with a few
modifications (but it would be a really re= ally bigger output file).

I want to insist in the fact that this is = a really easy way to coin the
fu'ivla, it treat all countries the same way (so is culturally neutral),and can exist among other fu'ivla coined with another method.

mu'o mi'e .leos.

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