From 3z4a6SwgJBlwA8N.IL8HAG4CF.6IGFID54HAIIAF8ALIOJM.6IG@groups.bounces.google.com Mon Apr 05 17:57:13 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f139.google.com ([209.85.222.139]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3z4a6SwgJBlwA8N.IL8HAG4CF.6IGFID54HAIIAF8ALIOJM.6IG@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nyx6K-00077w-1K for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:57:13 -0700 Received: by pzk3 with SMTP id 3sf36882pzk.28 for ; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:57:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:sender:received:from :date:received:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=otzCKQrnITye4SKJfkyOKhOCLSosnTpGIaN+QH/htwE=; b=BIP6St1vY3E6gdk/yXSkyypCsdk99mWBhcZNJf8JJAdOsfE5PZiw5MqBbHc893Ymzb UjMwb3WYzQuBkZhQNd8BXmnmb+6c8BCGaTLxP1XomCFLTKEa83Mms+atjPvGpjc2tf5o onBvZLqAycmD7Z0YAiCcqtXWXm3NLCa9UnTrk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:from:date:message-id :subject:to:x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=iLbc+rHUirao73m9D8To3st+OHNAz7KV/eGnfpfEdiBAJFcKm/gTqom9TFYBKgA9wo 73JjKNaqM7f5WaVufQkT6VH6Bs/AHOw+zV0JB/VG2uhAhe/agmv7z+QKMhYPbQA0spUQ kT/iPFs/+MCFBvLHEKdLDdg9S2mNMtooRhZU4= Received: by 10.115.101.19 with SMTP id d19mr417323wam.27.1270515407711; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:56:47 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.114.18.37 with SMTP id 37ls1169907war.2.p; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:56:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.189.4 with SMTP id m4mr1325225waf.6.1270515406516; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:56:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.189.4 with SMTP id m4mr1325224waf.6.1270515406483; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:56:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pv0-f174.google.com (mail-pv0-f174.google.com [74.125.83.174]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 19si515045pzk.3.2010.04.05.17.56.45; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.174 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.174; Received: by pva18 with SMTP id 18so2177943pva.33 for ; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:56:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.109.10 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 17:56:25 -0700 (PDT) From: =?UTF-8?B?55m95p2+IE9yZW4=?= Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 08:56:25 +0800 Received: by 10.142.3.35 with SMTP id 35mr2338514wfc.74.1270515405161; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] The proposed 'goals' of lojban To: lojban X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.174 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=get.oren@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: get.oren@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/8c345f62e9f946ce X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/25c3162726eac2a3 List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I didn't want to derail the agree/disagree thread, but wanted to point out a fun interpretation of the goals listed here: http://teddyb.org/robin/tiki-index.php?page=Lojban:+You're+Doing+It+Wrong Rephrased: * Lojban should be Logical * Lojban should be a Language * Being both logical and a language makes Lojban unique [and then the non-trivial bit] * Lojban should be backwards compatible I'm actually confused by the seeming contradiction here: "[backwards compatible] in the sense that users of the language should not have to re-learn anything; preserving the meaning of old utterances is of very little interest to me, obviously" It seems like formalizing 'versions' of Lojban would only make things backward compatible in the sense that 'users of a previous version *would* have to relearn something.' On another note, I would distill the goals down to this one sentiment: Lojban: The Logical Language Mission: Full expressive freedom: Any meaning expressed in a natural language can be expressed in Lojban, and at any desired level of ambiguity or precision. "logical" means no exceptions to rules, and no ambiguous syntax. "language" means it should be effective in human communication (clear*, brief and simple) *This obviates separate definition of 'cultural neutrality,' imo, which seeks to reduce a type of non-clarity. co'o mi'e korbi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.