From 3n8m6SwwJBm8ZNgg.ZNggNeaTZNVY.PbZYbWONaTbbTYRTebhcf.PbZ@groups.bounces.google.com Mon Apr 05 22:42:17 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f141.google.com ([209.85.210.141]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3n8m6SwwJBm8ZNgg.ZNggNeaTZNVY.PbZYbWONaTbbTYRTebhcf.PbZ@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nz1YC-0000qC-6D for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 22:42:17 -0700 Received: by yxe5 with SMTP id 5sf905891yxe.2 for ; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 22:42:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DAa3iEO9n8I0djmbK9pVWtlIi+falbDEkySNuJLJW0Y=; b=Oo61b0jdkdqGgAda42IS1Nccz04swQwenthfluM4669s/sqmfXMNKAqdfHVLlRqXBH Qy0qvevk8owfbx3UurCwxYWtr6OXKxCr9gLuisGYUBMDUBTk+IYSGL15XL1zbl4piU1Y C+NTQq3wItmZT6cBVdTfuSvgGvLHpoQQiSzsY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=f/9d7QjL4mxxTW5gl/Yxzossks5Mqe4bcxNwjAewMWFXaCw2FPw0zpHWcS9o/2X1Df NrpGZbbLzJ6YOWHhpJxGdfxNlCQ+MU6V8qkL1DfoIwMFeYskZ6KbTAPuLcKo6UCprzW3 b0gTF0yYpQ72iq/PRIXLaD/kNRNYSYlYHJynE= Received: by 10.91.127.5 with SMTP id e5mr373510agn.56.1270532511608; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 22:41:51 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.91.91.7 with SMTP id t7ls945982agl.1.p; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 22:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.48.9 with SMTP id v9mr3349795agv.5.1270532510360; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 22:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.48.9 with SMTP id v9mr3349792agv.5.1270532510307; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 22:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw0-f46.google.com (mail-gw0-f46.google.com [74.125.83.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si683651ywh.2.2010.04.05.22.41.49; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 22:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of matt.mattarn@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.46 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.46; Received: by mail-gw0-f46.google.com with SMTP id 19so1615764gwb.19 for ; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 22:41:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.196.12 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 22:41:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4bbac268.6202be0a.7d04.ffffdb04@mx.google.com> References: <4bbac268.6202be0a.7d04.ffffdb04@mx.google.com> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 01:41:49 -0400 Received: by 10.150.48.2 with SMTP id v2mr7513306ybv.348.1270532509138; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 22:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] The proposed 'goals' of lojban From: Matt Arnold To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of matt.mattarn@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=matt.mattarn@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/8c345f62e9f946ce X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/fdab544209102a79 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris, Currently newbies come to Lojban and ask "How do I say this?" and sometimes the answer is "we don't know yet." We need official rulings on those questions, and don't have them yet. This could go on and on forever. When I say "the minimum necessary", I mean the BPFK will quickly make the minimum number of rulings which are necessary to declare a new version of the language. I don't want to see it go on and on forever in pursuit of more questions to give rulings on, so I specified that I want it to be the minimum necessary with which to do the things that are on hold waiting for the BPFK to finish. -Eppcott On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 1:10 AM, Christopher Doty wro= te: > Man, I keep looking at you email... You're going to resolve questions tha= t > have no answers?? For the minimum necessary?? I'm not sure I parse, but i= f I > do... Wtf? > > Chris > > -- Sent from my Palm Pre > ________________________________ > On Apr 5, 2010 20:01, Matt Arnold wrote: > > I hope no one misunderstands, to think that Lojban does not already > meet the goals set down in the essay. It does meet them. Of course > nothing is perfect-- nor can it ever be-- but Lojban leaves other > languages in the dust, since they do not even make the attempt. > > The reason we need the goals formalized is to guide in clarifying rare > words and edge-cases. Given a set of choices on a specific issue, > these goals act like weights on a scale to influence the decision. > > With that in mind, these goals will not cause the BPFK to dither > endlessly, trying to perfectly meet the goals; rather, the goals will > let the BPFK quickly resolve questions for which there are no answers, > the minimum necessary to settle on a release of Lojban version 5. > > Goal #1 currently reads: "Lojban should be as logical (internally > consistent, semantically complete, ??? I don't really know how to > define this well) as possible". > > My suggestion for goal #1 is as follows: "Minimize rule exceptions and > maximize how predictably the components combine." What did I miss? > > -Eppcott > > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Kevin Reid wrote: >> On Apr 5, 2010, at 20:56, =E7=99=BD=E6=9D=BE Oren wrote: >> >>> Mission: Full expressive freedom: Any meaning expressed in a natural >>> language can be expressed in Lojban, and at any desired level of >>> ambiguity or precision. >> >> >> We are not interested in supporting ambiguity. We are interested in >> supporting vagueness. >> >> (Ambiguity is discrete; vagueness is continuous. Ambiguity means the >> listener has to choose among distinct and possibly very dissimilar >> meanings; >> vagueness means the listener gets a broad but contiguous cluster. >> Ambiguity, >> if possible in the language, has to be fixed by rewriting; vagueness can >> be >> fixed by adding elements.) >> >> -- >> Kevin Reid =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.