From 3j9y7SwgJBnMXVk.fiVeXdRZc.TfdcfaSReXffXcVXiflgj.Tfd@groups.bounces.google.com Tue Apr 06 18:15:22 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f139.google.com ([209.85.222.139]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3j9y7SwgJBnMXVk.fiVeXdRZc.TfdcfaSReXffXcVXiflgj.Tfd@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NzJrQ-0007VK-C8 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 18:15:22 -0700 Received: by pzk3 with SMTP id 3sf120667pzk.28 for ; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 18:15:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:from:date :received:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Gg2S8K0G0GLBulvAX00F+rinfAPWIR4KZvxgOdwVmt0=; b=vNThqpFXQDMS/lNH8Zi7/LF4mPxH6kmdzTyA8bSb9B9RKR4jHqK5D27BA8JczcEPvt VFFJLVb8ObYhavOQaler3vr6nHzRyzPfsdOZ48u2lcDhf4Tf0BCeC+W8Szy51gaNzyYE wttxBrAiqiYv6lX/WF3gtWFXJ0TBEtIJjC1/8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject :to:x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; b=ZTARnXgFK6bgIRnjuyyISzXXBoRBsVBQB9Aev64SdamQywFTM9WDADdP5X4uPMv+6O 3RXay2APuEk6vIoOtEn5+g2nuaO7UroZGkTtDid/aUID4nGj6O2GACKakRiJPKxYi8ve X8OCbt4oi+LFCwcqe3K/vfkUyZpalWm8/OU8w= Received: by 10.141.131.19 with SMTP id i19mr488681rvn.28.1270602895808; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 18:14:55 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.141.188.22 with SMTP id q22ls2281464rvp.1.p; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 18:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.124.12 with SMTP id b12mr1261689rvn.17.1270602894301; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 18:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.124.12 with SMTP id b12mr1261688rvn.17.1270602894269; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 18:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pv0-f180.google.com (mail-pv0-f180.google.com [74.125.83.180]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si2946119pzk.9.2010.04.06.18.14.53; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 18:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.180; Received: by mail-pv0-f180.google.com with SMTP id 22so361416pvc.39 for ; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 18:14:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.109.10 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Apr 2010 18:14:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Oren Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 09:14:32 +0800 Received: by 10.142.8.13 with SMTP id 13mr3139386wfh.210.1270602893168; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 18:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Tangent: Is there a better grammar? To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.180 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=get.oren@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: get.oren@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/6d4e31b897cbe4b1 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/a069aa9b2692a534 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502c09c190fbd04839b4aed --00504502c09c190fbd04839b4aed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 01:03, And Rosta wrote: > [* As I see it, the design problem has two parts. Both have to do with > finding ways to logically precise meanings concise enough to be worth the > effort of verbalizing. One part is to find a more concise way of of encoding > variables than standard predicate logic notation and Lojban offer, given > that in most propositions we express (in natural language) there are many > variables and each variable tends to be argument of many predicates. The > other part is to devise an inventory of predicates that expand to more > complex logical structures.] I don't really see your case here; if one of the basic goals is to be a useful human language, then I don't see any alternative to predicate logic as two-dimensional representation of utterances. Or, if there was one. it would seem inherently illogical due to it's complexity. Could you (or anyone) expand this thought? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --00504502c09c190fbd04839b4aed Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 01:03, And Rosta = <and.rosta@gmail.com> wrote:
[* As I see it, the design problem has two parts. Both have to do with find= ing ways to logically precise meanings concise enough to be worth the effor= t of verbalizing. One part is to find a more concise way of of encoding var= iables than standard predicate logic notation and Lojban offer, given that = in most propositions we express (in natural language) there are many variab= les and each variable tends to be argument of many predicates. The other pa= rt is to devise an inventory of predicates that expand to more complex logi= cal structures.]

I don't really see your case here; if one of the basic g= oals is to be a useful human language, then I don't see any alternative= to predicate logic as two-dimensional representation of utterances. Or, if= there was one. it would seem inherently illogical due to it's complexi= ty. Could you (or anyone) expand this thought?

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