From 35he8SwgSBgYxrvu2krrjomozgrqotmjus.uxmruphgtmuumrkmxu0vy.ius@groups.bounces.google.com Tue Apr 06 22:28:33 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <35he8SwgSBgYxrvu2krrjomozgrqotmjus.uxmruphgtmuumrkmxu0vy.ius@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NzNoR-0002P0-N7 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 22:28:33 -0700 Received: by pvb32 with SMTP id 32sf58918pvb.16 for ; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 22:28:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; bh=F5zp3TAnFvpNUpP1rRJquxjLvVmBPG48FTE4323ac7w=; b=LQoihvyWgm9z+NtIfx7fCw3Bx3aIsxzNClXrsI/5g+g6hriUsz2FJhNpnMZvwriWHQ 2ESjQun/R+eKblBiRufntDhqy6UKlk9U2AJrnTgeRQUyv0N6YvJMs87v8RgWAAnyGt2u c8SPsGxmOWPTLteqZfaQ1QIWgWqLfGFHTxpTM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; b=lkNKUC+MyX+VGR0B4pbFCfXdCQYCNHE+mg1PC/egowuBFvb1vMOyzPqSupxqK7mzng FCvee6ibSn2Ek/pWfNew7WOOVh3idkR0cKQ5E4imCj1bmayVL51gu+irCF15MQMW9DZJ QexHGaF6cX6hC/O6UNv11OgohJjZCeq1yOTfc= Received: by 10.141.131.19 with SMTP id i19mr499482rvn.13.1270618086885; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 22:28:06 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.141.187.12 with SMTP id o12ls2322070rvp.0.p; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 22:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.124.18 with SMTP id b18mr1292866rvn.14.1270618084752; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 22:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.124.18 with SMTP id b18mr1292865rvn.14.1270618084724; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 22:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.4]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 25si2977202pzk.8.2010.04.06.22.28.04; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 22:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.4 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) client-ip=69.17.117.4; Received: (qmail 28727 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2010 05:28:04 -0000 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 7 Apr 2010 05:28:04 -0000 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NzNo3-0002OS-2W for lojban@googlegroups.com; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 22:28:03 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 22:28:03 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Tangent: Is there a better grammar? Message-ID: <20100407052802.GI21843@digitalkingdom.org> References: <00c09f76ad870c0d9e04839b81ae@google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <00c09f76ad870c0d9e04839b81ae@google.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.4 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/6d4e31b897cbe4b1 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/ff6fce41e756b96b Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline http://www.math.ucla.edu/~jimc/guaspi/ -Robin On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 01:30:15AM +0000, GFBeresford@gmail.com wrote: > I know *someone* tried to make a language similar to lojban using > the asian tonal system. This would certainly allow shorter > utterances, since there are WAY more one-syllable sounds > available... though it isn't really an improved grammar, just a > different alphabet... > > > > On Apr 7, 2010 2:14am, Oren wrote: > >On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 01:03, And Rosta and.rosta@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >[* As I see it, the design problem has two parts. Both have to do > >with finding ways to logically precise meanings concise enough to > >be worth the effort of verbalizing. One part is to find a more > >concise way of of encoding variables than standard predicate logic > >notation and Lojban offer, given that in most propositions we > >express (in natural language) there are many variables and each > >variable tends to be argument of many predicates. The other part > >is to devise an inventory of predicates that expand to more > >complex logical structures.] > > > > >I don't really see your case here; if one of the basic goals is to > >be a useful human language, then I don't see any alternative to > >predicate logic as two-dimensional representation of utterances. > >Or, if there was one. it would seem inherently illogical due to > >it's complexity. Could you (or anyone) expand this thought? > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >Groups "lojban" group. > > >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > > >For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.