From 3dh-8SwgSBp0OIMLTBIIAFDFQ7IHFKDALJ.LODILG87KDLLDIBDOLRMP.9LJ@groups.bounces.google.com Tue Apr 06 23:00:48 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f139.google.com ([209.85.222.139]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3dh-8SwgSBp0OIMLTBIIAFDFQ7IHFKDALJ.LODILG87KDLLDIBDOLRMP.9LJ@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NzOJf-0003hW-7t for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:00:48 -0700 Received: by pzk3 with SMTP id 3sf174613pzk.28 for ; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:00:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:received:date:from :to:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version :in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=zP+lm47eeIPLmoum90CQ2BGzQ4BvSoHOEIXN39n31BE=; b=GqKK3RTQFfMRV+HLW/9F0zsAzS/9J+tNkl2xcPQCFxgHaZcJ/2j1+MupCY/n2O1d6e hc52/NDSEEUS0TP0dvPMA40M75k7n7t/tc8RuG1mu4uhzBR6C0V5BQ/w5WyxU8qZp6RL k1jCf8p7I0236QjR/K/9o+MVNLt+ZOSLusEmM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; b=DqjWCyLpuVoocUmdFo4vBES0Hl6v9KyoAAc74mCpJpSeqDkQN8XkOuqbaodSNctMVW f38FKNMPDa4RQA0pu5zCuIirgnWRghmVZ9EB4xkFjfqMBVts0o9o+4m6+bFx4XhvVYGH ITLWxAvjb2HOMDip5OPgdQCl31gZtS467DNXc= Received: by 10.142.2.13 with SMTP id 13mr281261wfb.3.1270620022894; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:00:22 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.152.26 with SMTP id z26ls1372912wfd.1.p; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:00:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.67.32 with SMTP id p32mr1323367wfa.21.1270620020304; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:00:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.67.32 with SMTP id p32mr1323365wfa.21.1270620020233; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:00:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.10]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si2975624pzk.13.2010.04.06.23.00.20; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:00:20 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.10 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of nobody@digitalkingdom.org) client-ip=69.17.117.10; Received: (qmail 29373 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2010 06:00:20 -0000 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 7 Apr 2010 06:00:19 -0000 Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NzOJG-0003dg-3y for lojban@googlegroups.com; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:00:18 -0700 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NzOJE-0003dY-Us for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:00:17 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 23:00:16 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: Massive irony (Everson, please read) (was Re: [lojban] BPFK Announcement: Orthography) Message-ID: <20100407060016.GB9239@digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: <20100401165252.GK6084@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20100401165252.GK6084@digitalkingdom.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.10 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of nobody@digitalkingdom.org) smtp.mail=nobody@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/11b07957f4e1e945 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/d59d4829de1595cb Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Arnt made me not post this the day of, because he refused to believe me because it was April First; he basically accused me of lying. Whilst working on this, whole process took a while, because I had to go over it several times to make sure I had hit everything. During that process something very interesting happened: it started being really easy to read. It reminded me, strongly, of http://blogs.msdn.com/fontblog/archive/2005/11/16/493452.aspx This dovetailed with a nagging feeling I had been having that I was sticking to the way I was used to things because I'm used to them. So, ironically, working on this made me much more receptive to Everson's plans. I *still* think ". I" looks like cat barf, but I think that's just me being conservative, so I'm going to be less of a dick about it. -Robin On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 09:52:52AM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > Pursuant to the recent discussion, the BPFK has been meeting to > decide what to do about declaring a very specific, offical Lojban > orthography that includes the best of various proposals extant, a > standard of marking stress that everyone can agree on, and the > flexibility to deal with alternative modes of typography in Latin > script. > > To that end, we've settled on the following general principles. See > below for a specific example (using the Alice translation, > naturally). > > 1. It has always been a founding principle of Lojban that it should > be easy to use with computers (this is what the ASCII convention was > about). Taking this further leads to two minor changes: > > a. A new set of letters for marking stress has been chosen, that > is at least as easy to use as capitals, but leaves capitals free > for other orthographic uses without conflict. For the most part, > these letters were taken from current standard internet practice, > however stressed "u" and "y" have no such standard, so they were > picked to resemble similar practice, but have no weight of long > use to back them up, unfortunately. > > b. The letter ' is now deprecated, since it routinely > upsets computers (try dealing with a file named "lo'i.mp3" in a > shell script some time). > > 2. While periods are preferred, it is always allowed to drop > periods, as before, but if you do so, it is preferred that you > replace the following letter with its capital form, to enhance > visual distinctiveness. For cases where a period has been dropped, > and the next letter is a stress letter, it's preferred to use both, > marking the text in some way to indicate that both are intended to > occupy the same space. Details of this markup are left to usage to > decide. > > 3. It is preferred to always mark stress, especially since we have > a much more convenient way to do so now; why leave out information > if you don't have to? This includes cmavo. > > 4. Compound cmavo are no longer allowed, at all. Their use will > result in several large men arriving at your house in an unmarked > black car. > > 5. For obvious reasons, using numerals for "p4", "r3", "c1", and so > on is deprecated. > > Here's an example of a not-totally-standard (because it drops > periods), but perfectly valid, text under the new proposal: > > p4 m0ho m0hi n1ha l3 r4ctu k3vna > ================================ > > N1ho l4 (4|A)lis c0ha t4tpi l3 n_ z_tse l3 r1rxe k0rbi r3ho l3 > m3nsi g1he z_kte f1 n0d4 (1|I) (4|A) b_ b01 p4 j1hi r3 r01 s_tra > zg4na g1he z_kte f1 n0 d4 (1|I) (4|A) b_ b01 s_ho r01 s_tra zg4na > l3 c_kta p01 l3 m3nsi c_ tc1du (1|I) k_hi c/ v4sru n0 p1xra j4 > nunc4snu (1|I) l_ j1ha m4 pr4li s31 l4 (4|A)lis p3nsi f1 l0 c_kta > p0i v4sru n0 p1xra j4 nunc4snu l1hu > > (1|I) (4|A) b_ c4ho m3nli jd1ce t0 s3 k41 l3 x4grai selk4he p3 > v4ho l3 n_ l3 gl4re dj3di c_ r1nka l3 n_ (4|A) b_ l1fri l3 n_ > s1pydji j3 b3bna t01 l3 d_hu x_ k4_ l3 n_ pl_ka f4 l3 n_ zb4su l0 > xr_la l1nsi c_ s3 v4mji l3 r4ktu p01 n_ sahirb1ho g1he cr3pu l31 > xr_la (1|I) c4 b0 s_ksa f4 l3 n_ l0 bl4bi r4ctu p01 xunbl4bi s3 > k4nla c_ b4jra z0ha (4|A) b_ > > You're welcome to talk amongst yourselves, of course, but this is > already a done deal; the BPFK has spoken, this is now official, and > the BPFK has a majority in the LLG, so you pretty much get to suck > it up. > > -Robin > > -- > OMFG am I not actually speaking for the BPFK here. Note the date. > No offense to anyone, including Everson and xorxes, is intended. > kthxbye > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.