From 35lG8SwgJBkAigv.qtgpiockn.eqonqldcpiqqingitqwru.eqo@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Apr 07 02:36:01 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f198.google.com ([209.85.217.198]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <35lG8SwgJBkAigv.qtgpiockn.eqonqldcpiqqingitqwru.eqo@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NzRfw-0006pu-8V for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 02:36:01 -0700 Received: by gxk22 with SMTP id 22sf486702gxk.4 for ; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 02:35:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:received:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=BPeAVDuiJLKPEWBuo/onZg0iB51Q/MrxW1I+iNS+d2Q=; b=OEwuyqlEI3S5r7NQrA3D6khK0JFSZoI3E3R0vtAnnbhAd/wEfv1M9IPd4hdvDul4VO eTgmhDsNg3lITWdBC8ACgI32hr2txhsUrYvAQ7wA5MV5uN450R9zgDhq2M1xsxrMJDW8 hFo5hMIT+5zjd4D4mJGFEL+T350w3UQ5qExsU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=atlfY7pwk8FaRAMaFY8eag7RGktPmgue6H2TVQeDtII5lmWdULnn7rRPjL6DFV/UeN e/FeCqk/9B2BD2v0WBXOgsD/gKwDumNivN3ORntOcUX2A67Nq6bVzLJsRlHUiMQs3Qvg wU25OfRtWUkEr10mrpAe0CXdrg51YnckOdbnA= Received: by 10.91.93.4 with SMTP id v4mr636857agl.6.1270632934902; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 02:35:34 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.2.77 with SMTP id 13ls955138ebi.0.p; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 02:35:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.25.72 with SMTP id y8mr863438ebb.2.1270632932828; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 02:35:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.25.72 with SMTP id y8mr863437ebb.2.1270632932687; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 02:35:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f171.google.com (mail-pz0-f171.google.com [209.85.222.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 12si910660ewy.10.2010.04.07.02.35.30; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 02:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 209.85.222.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.222.171; Received: by pzk1 with SMTP id 1so124600pzk.14 for ; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 02:35:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.109.10 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Apr 2010 02:35:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4BBC4403.70007@lojban.org> References: <20100407053428.GA9239@digitalkingdom.org> <4BBC4403.70007@lojban.org> From: Oren Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 17:35:09 +0800 Received: by 10.142.5.25 with SMTP id 25mr3233624wfe.78.1270632929916; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 02:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] [lojban-announcements] Request For Help; non-urgent research request to help Lojban. To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 209.85.222.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=get.oren@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: get.oren@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/eb8a3ed85a2128d0 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/1e76834ed6aa76c6 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502b0a26d75c80483a24806 --00504502b0a26d75c80483a24806 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 @lojbab, yea, could you dig up the data? I'm interested in this idea. korbi On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 16:36, Bob LeChevalier wrote: > Robin Lee Powell wrote: > >> I am feeling hopeful just now that we'll actually get around to >> publishing a dictionary in my lifetime :) , so I'd like to ask for >> someone else to do a project I've been thinking about for ages, to >> help with the dictionary. >> >> Research needed: peruse other languages' official test documents >> (the Japanese JLPT is a good example here) or similar official or >> semi-official word lists, and come up with a list, in something like >> importance order, of words that a language "should" have. Perhaps >> this has already been done; if so, I couldn't find it, but that >> would be fantastic. >> >> The goal is to get a list of 5 or 10 thousand words that we can use >> to guide dictionary development; a set of words to form a core "if >> you know this you can have a normal conversation" set for learning. >> > > The project has historically used Helen Eaton's list of the 6000 most used > concepts in 4 languages as this standard. The list is biased towards > European languages, and of course is 70 years old, but it remains an > excellent standard for the goal you refer to, since it was created for > artificial language work (Interlingua, I believe). > > (It also served as the basis for the cultural gismu design decision. JCB's > standard was that the first N - I think 2000 - concepts had to be > expressible as either gismu, their basic conversions (using SE and NU), or > by simple two-part lujvo. Among the most frequent concepts are "my > language/culture/country/religion" (whatever word it is named by), and thus > gismu were made for the most common choices as might be used by speakers of > the source languages. > > It also happens to be an official LLG Project already, though somehow it is > documented on the projects page as something I was doing on my own, which > was never the intent. I wanted to make sure any attempts were coordinated, > to avoid redundancy. (I also have, deep in my archives, the accumulated > efforts by JCB's group towards this end. I believe they approached the 3000 > level by the mid-80s when the effort fell apart, and some of the words > invented could be used in Lojban after updating the source tanru to the > current language). > > The Eaton book is an out-of-print Dover Book. I have a couple of Xeroxed > copies; there are some annotations made by JCB. The archived JCB work is in > computer text files. > > I would be happy to support others who might want to continue this effort. > > lojbab > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --00504502b0a26d75c80483a24806 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
@lojbab,=A0

yea, could you dig up the d= ata? I'm interested in this idea.

korbi
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 16:36, Bob LeChevalier <= span dir=3D"ltr"><lojbab@lojban.org= > wrote:
Robin Lee Powell wrote:
I am feeling hopeful just now that we'll actually get around to
publishing a dictionary in my lifetime :) , so I'd like to ask for
someone else to do a project I've been thinking about for ages, to
help with the dictionary.

Research needed: peruse other languages' official test documents
(the Japanese JLPT is a good example here) or similar official or
semi-official word lists, and come up with a list, in something like
importance order, of words that a language "should" have. =A0Perh= aps
this has already been done; if so, I couldn't find it, but that
would be fantastic.

The goal is to get a list of 5 or 10 thousand words that we can use
to guide dictionary development; a set of words to form a core "if
you know this you can have a normal conversation" set for learning.

The project has historically used Helen Eaton's list of the 6000 most u= sed concepts in 4 languages as this standard. =A0The list is biased towards= European languages, and of course is 70 years old, but it remains an excel= lent standard for the goal you refer to, since it was created for artificia= l language work (Interlingua, I believe).

(It also served as the basis for the cultural gismu design decision. JCB= 9;s standard was that the first N - I think 2000 - concepts had to be expre= ssible as either gismu, their basic conversions (using SE and NU), or by si= mple two-part lujvo. =A0Among the most frequent concepts are "my langu= age/culture/country/religion" (whatever word it is named by), and thus= gismu were made for the most common choices as might be used by speakers o= f the source languages.

It also happens to be an official LLG Project already, though somehow it is= documented on the projects page as something I was doing on my own, which = was never the intent. =A0I wanted to make sure any attempts were coordinate= d, to avoid redundancy. =A0(I also have, deep in my archives, the accumulat= ed efforts by JCB's group towards this end. =A0I believe they approache= d the 3000 level by the mid-80s when the effort fell apart, and some of the= words invented could be used in Lojban after updating the source tanru to = the current language).

The Eaton book is an out-of-print Dover Book. =A0I have a couple of Xeroxed= copies; there are some annotations made by JCB. =A0The archived JCB work i= s in computer text files.

I would be happy to support others who might want to continue this effort.<= br>
lojbab

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