From 3kLW8SwgSBk47154Cu11tywy9q10y3wt42.47w14zrq3w44w1uw74A58.s42@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Apr 07 09:41:44 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3kLW8SwgSBk47154Cu11tywy9q10y3wt42.47w14zrq3w44w1uw74A58.s42@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NzYJS-0003Wd-NF for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:41:43 -0700 Received: by pvb32 with SMTP id 32sf244584pvb.16 for ; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:41:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; bh=W3u4IbWXLu663l8gkgEUe/ItBf+bOK5FzfcPCczwo3w=; b=fhLz9VbAU7Lbz1dt3h2fFbHThP4Y3VREHuS6MaMURNxZx0Vtt85QmCi1YDiQDSHVw7 sWqPzSR4m0YOqeDxex1kG+EYLif/s175css2o8KYS13rJ/vj9uwKuTZsfHxsUEU0os3G UgnoRtuprnTuVhn71Exfq3/YMDsMqZD3r0dgs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; b=xHw+AkKd7YFGf8icUsxH8+I4RlV0OgJTemiwADCri7NWL8v+ABqPtP77Wz4XCl68pf iGZXTPfsKadCbwnJeLtQo/xqmUk59m3PTQoER1ng+AAXbV6uBXoDvUVfDBM9PG3dubuK 7gKqBEU+u+myuDUJEvhBOIDGXKNYJe8QS9HAQ= Received: by 10.142.250.34 with SMTP id x34mr333165wfh.36.1270658448957; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:40:48 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.2.23 with SMTP id 23ls1529373wfb.3.p; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.55.19 with SMTP id d19mr1471118wfa.6.1270658445371; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.55.19 with SMTP id d19mr1471117wfa.6.1270658445348; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail1.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.3]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 25si3057382pzk.12.2010.04.07.09.40.45; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.3 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) client-ip=69.17.117.3; Received: (qmail 5872 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2010 16:40:44 -0000 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail1.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 7 Apr 2010 16:40:44 -0000 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NzYIz-0003Tf-7C for lojban@googlegroups.com; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:40:43 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 09:40:41 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Tangent: Is there a better grammar? Message-ID: <20100407164040.GB11541@digitalkingdom.org> References: <0014852d325d4f68180483a09bbd@google.com> <36CEEED1-6104-4AD4-A64A-F58592CCBA56@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <36CEEED1-6104-4AD4-A64A-F58592CCBA56@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.3 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/6d4e31b897cbe4b1 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/f3c2a6e3142c1429 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 09:42:12AM +0100, Michael Everson wrote: > On 7 Apr 2010, at 08:35, GFBeresford@gmail.com wrote: > > > Does anyone know if lojban texts have statistically more/less > > syllables than their english/natural language equivalents? I > > suppose to be truly fair, those stats might need to include > > texts composed in lojban and then translated into english as > > well... > > Alice's Adventures in Wonderland: > > Lojban (raw text taken from PDF, table of contents removed, no punctuation) > 31,727 words > 112,238 characters (no spaces) > 144,018 characters (with spaces) > > English (table of contents removed, normal punctuation) > 26,519 words > 115,922 characters (no spaces) > 141,867 characters (with spaces) > > Irish (table of contents removed, normal punctuation) > 30,498 words > 132,311 characters (no spaces) > 162,173 characters (with spaces) > > I leave it for the numerate to determine whether this data is of > any use in terms of the question. IME, Lojban is noticeably more verbose (in terms of syllable) than English, and less so than Formal Japanese. Lojban and Japanese handle this problem in the same way: by saying less, and leaving things to context. Shoulson and I have argued that a native Lojbanist would have UI as 75+% of their utterances. :) -Robin -- They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.