From 3lbK0SwoJBkg24ywsmr1s2qwksv.mywvytlkxqyyqvoq1y4z2.myw@groups.bounces.google.com Thu Apr 01 07:50:24 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3lbK0SwoJBkg24ywsmr1s2qwksv.mywvytlkxqyyqvoq1y4z2.myw@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NxLis-0000fM-76 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 07:50:23 -0700 Received: by vws5 with SMTP id 5sf118820vws.16 for ; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 07:50:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:received:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=QqVD9zZQ949FZiA0V845/nmJaRIdxqn2R51VaxEDn8o=; b=CV7qrRkzDQXYqWDVlKt5MYMDU5FqGh+vGcnyWOF9ID70ZiN9cYiCsz0LfsixqWSjh0 Hnr0/ZnX0nuYfcIQcm8oXbTQGN0b90+heUQocC6NqNGqiri0Vp1jA+Zz8IiwzFci4IQK K7jsuCNGh6b6ti8EAu0oFuaeWnbjWXC09iBF4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=oEUIB5Ek1Uf57b61LrZlsGXPe8oSrVijuCtLXR+So+Ox5EFUZdLErjrLLlqykdhDU8 HBMHJg4LkPVOPngu1M3IvG22UmAjkHi2yDTDdFOAQ11zttBN/oeVHVZqcQVc9k3U/gI9 NIpOdFVibEnYH9mud81QiswTh9cotH3OKt+z0= Received: by 10.220.107.165 with SMTP id b37mr78375vcp.21.1270133397293; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 07:49:57 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.47.17 with SMTP id l17ls362313vcf.5.p; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 07:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.99.148 with SMTP id u20mr210264vcn.18.1270133395341; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 07:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.99.148 with SMTP id u20mr210263vcn.18.1270133395306; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 07:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw0-f53.google.com (mail-gw0-f53.google.com [74.125.83.53]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 31si19266763vws.4.2010.04.01.07.49.54; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 07:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of suomichris@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.53; Received: by gwj23 with SMTP id 23so737980gwj.26 for ; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 07:49:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.5.20 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Apr 2010 07:49:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201003312350.52303.phma@phma.optus.nu> From: Christopher Doty Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 07:49:27 -0700 Received: by 10.101.134.3 with SMTP id l3mr2890228ann.200.1270133389578; Thu, 01 Apr 2010 07:49:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Summary: Cultural fu'ivla To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of suomichris@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=suomichris@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: suomichris@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/6edf3f52e6f491ba X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/7d3733e92c3397e6 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5be08815b9304832df9a3 --001636c5be08815b9304832df9a3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So, it seems like the summary, at least for the language stuff, should actually be "Come up with a rather comprehensive list of fu'ivla, try to ge= t people to use them." And then, maybe, at some point in the future if no on= e uses the gismu anymore, it might be time to revisit the issue of whether or not to chuck them, but for now, there they stay. I am happy to finish making up a list of terms from the list I was working from, keeping in mind people's comments (especially given that, as .xorxes. noted, there really isn't any reason to have them all be of the same structure--I wonder about a couple of seven-letter fu'ivla would be better for these). I could then post it somewhere on the wiki for folks to take a look at, make comments, changes, etc. I guess my previous hesitation was not so much about whether or not people would use this, but about whether o= r not people would be willing to look at the list and make some notes/changes about things they don't like (a la Pierre's comment). Based on the responses here, it seems like there are at least a handful of people willin= g to do this, so I will try to cook up a list later this week and put it up somewhere. I will try to keep some notes on the list about various things (namely, terms that don't come from the autonym). I think we (well, I) need to thin= k about the autonym issue somewhat more--as with Finland, and with Chechen, one could argue that the fact that the autonym is simply not used outside the community of speakers, making the Lojban based on the autonym actually introduces MORE cultural bias than going with the more international form. I'm not sure I believe that, but it is worth thinking about while doing this. So, anyway, yeah--people will look at the list if I make it? And tell me how I did it all wrong? ;) Chris 2010/4/1 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas > On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 12:50 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > On Wednesday 31 March 2010 16:54:27 Christopher Doty wrote: > > > >> Chechen (=D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=85=D1=87=D0=B8=D0=B9=D0=BD =D0=BC=D0=BE=D1=82= =D1=82) tce'acu (che/cau) > > > > There's one code that's not based on the autonym. I say "noxcino". > > I would be in favor of removing "xc" from the list of forbidden > clusters (but then I would give priority to "mz", "ntc", "nts", "ndz", > "ndj"). > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --001636c5be08815b9304832df9a3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So, it seems like the summary, at least for the language stuff, should actu= ally be "Come up with a rather comprehensive list of fu'ivla, try = to get people to use them." =C2=A0And then, maybe, at some point in th= e future if no one uses the gismu anymore, it might be time to revisit the = issue of whether or not to chuck them, but for now, there they stay.

I am happy to finish making up a list of terms from the list= I was working from, keeping in mind people's comments (especially give= n that, as .xorxes. noted, there really isn't any reason to have them a= ll be of the same structure--I wonder about a couple of seven-letter fu'= ;ivla would be better for these). =C2=A0I could then post it somewhere on t= he wiki for folks to take a look at, make comments, changes, etc. =C2=A0I g= uess my previous hesitation was not so much about whether or not people wou= ld use this, but about whether or not people would be willing to look at th= e list and make some notes/changes about things they don't like (a la P= ierre's comment). =C2=A0Based on the responses here, it seems like ther= e are at least a handful of people willing to do this, so I will try to coo= k up a list later this week and put it up somewhere.

I will try to keep some notes on the list about various= things (namely, terms that don't come from the autonym). =C2=A0I think= we (well, I) need to think about the autonym issue somewhat more--as with = Finland, and with Chechen, one could argue that the fact that the autonym i= s simply not used outside the community of speakers, making the Lojban base= d on the autonym actually introduces MORE cultural bias than going with the= more international form. I'm not sure I believe that, but it is worth = thinking about while doing this.

So, anyway, yeah--people will look at the list if I mak= e it? =C2=A0And tell me how I did it all wrong? ;)

Chris

2010/4/1 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas = <jjllambias@gm= ail.com>
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 12= :50 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.op= tus.nu> wrote:
> On Wednesday 31 March 2010 16:54:27 Christopher Doty wrote:
>
>> Chechen (=D0=BD=D0=BE=D1=85=D1=87=D0=B8=D0= =B9=D0=BD =D0=BC=D0=BE=D1=82=D1=82) tce'acu (che/cau)
>
> There's one code that's not based on the autonym. I say "= noxcino".

I would be in favor of removing "xc" from the list of forbi= dden
clusters (but then I would give priority to "mz", "ntc"= , "nts", "ndz",
"ndj").

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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