From 3h7e8SwgSBkc0uyx5nuumrpr2jutrwpmxv.x0puxskjwpxxpunp0x3y1.lxv@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Apr 07 09:49:43 2010 Received: from mail-pw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3h7e8SwgSBkc0uyx5nuumrpr2jutrwpmxv.x0puxskjwpxxpunp0x3y1.lxv@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NzYRa-0004FA-1D for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:49:42 -0700 Received: by pwi3 with SMTP id 3sf378153pwi.16 for ; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:49:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NoQuhX8TwdsNh+uZVVe9UqdlFyClzNpdOdI10+CzBJE=; b=i6x8WM1qQ7zyaClyfhKP15p+e0NltTXMRwYrMzSbV3VMvBC3BG80mIXieLuPqZFw76 xDJIFKaidn6W17msnMMyamTVxjgAYJo9ake9jbSXFuItnD8yqpiAq3hGRqoAcw/jwLx9 P85TIuwt2E61sILqY3ulwq81z1lcs8SFmM1Ew= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; b=VvJpSGzyTAnH4or+GsqSTp0VTHwRZ4kWpSY7lR2L8nwPjJISYlS6lxTgBH8LbBOI6e b3vf1rLdinstODvMz90gZLbixV+oN0BA4dSJAkpmtePUdjaaEk/hkLR5fXbtjTP5w2+B weK3hZQaKG1Wv6ZSZSM7DJauWwRFur5B1I398= Received: by 10.141.131.19 with SMTP id i19mr596428rvn.13.1270658951864; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:49:11 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.141.188.22 with SMTP id q22ls2627208rvp.1.p; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.124.15 with SMTP id b15mr1438077rvn.0.1270658950698; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.124.15 with SMTP id b15mr1438076rvn.0.1270658950670; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.10]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si3099796pzk.10.2010.04.07.09.49.10; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.10 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) client-ip=69.17.117.10; Received: (qmail 11006 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2010 16:49:10 -0000 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 7 Apr 2010 16:49:10 -0000 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NzYR7-0004EA-Ur for lojban@googlegroups.com; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:49:06 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 09:49:05 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Massive irony (Everson, please read) (was Re: [lojban] BPFK Announcement: Orthography) Message-ID: <20100407164905.GC11541@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100401165252.GK6084@digitalkingdom.org> <20100407060016.GB9239@digitalkingdom.org> <20100407163712.GA11541@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.10 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/11b07957f4e1e945 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/c0e4fe641af715ba Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What did I say that was different than that? All vowel-initial words in Lojban are required to start with a pause, which is often rendered as a glottal stop. It is not *required* in writing, but it is generally considered good style in writing for publication and such. Everson appeared to be asserting that the "." in ".i" was a sentence-ending pause, which simply isn't correct. -Robin On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 09:43:06AM -0700, Christopher Doty wrote: > That was not my understanding at all--I thought that, like > English, all vowel-initial words in Lojban are required to start > with a glottal stop, but, because it is predictable, it isn't > required to be written. Is that not the case? >=20 > Chris >=20 > On Wednesday, April 7, 2010, Robin Lee Powell > wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 09:20:29AM +0100, Michael Everson wrote: > >> On 7 Apr 2010, at 07:00, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > >> > >> > So, ironically, working on this made me much more receptive to > >> > Everson's plans. > >> > > >> > I *still* think ". I" looks like cat barf, but I think that's > >> > just me being conservative, so I'm going to be less of a dick > >> > about it. > >> > >> Remember, in the "standard typography" version "." and "I" are > >> unrelated. The glottal/pause is inherent in initial vowels and > >> words following "la"; the full stop is just the sentence-ending > >> blort. > > > > No, it isn't; the "." is there *because of the "i". =A0They are, > > conceptually, directly attached to each other, so they should be > > visually attached too. =A0If there was no "i", there would be no ".". > > > > Lojban does not require a full stop (if that's linguistically > > different than a pause, which it seems to be?) anywhere, including > > at the end of sentences. > > > > -Robin > > > > -- > > They say: =A0"The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." > > And I'm =A0thinking: =A0"Does it even occur to you to try for something > > other =A0than =A0the default =A0outcome?" =A0See http://shrunklink.com/= cdiz > > http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@google= groups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lo= jban?hl=3Den. > > > > >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 --=20 They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.