From 3Hbq8SwgSBt8SMQPXFMMEJHJUBMLJOHEPN.PSHMPKCBOHPPHMFHSPVQT.DPN@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Apr 07 10:01:25 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3Hbq8SwgSBt8SMQPXFMMEJHJUBMLJOHEPN.PSHMPKCBOHPPHMFHSPVQT.DPN@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NzYcr-0005L0-De for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:01:24 -0700 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5sf608488gyd.16 for ; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:01:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; bh=UAW7gF6WGE9b5GF4/4oYuhZSc8HV3UR8TJeocVneJG4=; b=BEEYFsL/2XwI/TJy1soGwOLbCa1RD2yd5hvDXjTDNajMYNtHJfkUaertTJBqQLhGKk VsDfuOO6SwyGt+Aks4DcUYp4aydUJcW0HflJW293NAOOD8SoJHp7nAkkzCL6ML6feWyQ 6NBxGiEDMW2EuFRk8+MvI8y0MW+9lZnCk5lrc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; b=0vFpNbPcpsekQeVERXod23oeSdqrAIq/tGNQ4cekpQotsf/iw3Q8l2b/0o0AFOcuS/ BLQXsbAw9Q0jIAqEcLolrKmFeMKNQ75EqKZpiMO7iMzoirubK77Xsjy06g5zFamFQAvs 4fZmrUZt9kRGpdWML3Fp/UrNm2A/Qdq70XQUA= Received: by 10.91.160.33 with SMTP id m33mr732745ago.24.1270659613886; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:00:13 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.28.1 with SMTP id k1ls1330503ibc.3.p; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.60.20 with SMTP id i20mr1461713wfa.13.1270659611577; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.60.20 with SMTP id i20mr1461704wfa.13.1270659609462; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:00:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.7]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 19si870414pzk.11.2010.04.07.10.00.09; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:00:09 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.7 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) client-ip=69.17.117.7; Received: (qmail 16816 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2010 17:00:08 -0000 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 7 Apr 2010 17:00:08 -0000 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NzYbk-00058v-AT for lojban@googlegroups.com; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:00:04 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 10:00:04 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-announcements] Essay on the future of Lojban, with a simple poll for the community. Message-ID: <20100407170004.GE11541@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> <4BBC3CE4.6080803@lojban.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4BBC3CE4.6080803@lojban.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.7 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/c67f210addc06a0c X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/125b69f87b7f2f09 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 04:05:56AM -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: > >On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Robin Lee Powell > > wrote: > > > >>FOLLOWUPS TO: The main list. > >> > >>OK, been promising it for a while; here it is. > >> > >>http://teddyb.org/robin/tiki-index.php?page=Lojban%3A+You're+Doing+It+Wrong > >> > >>There are all *sorts* of finicky details we could discuss, but > >>right now I and others would very much just like to get a sense > >>of where the community stands on these sorts of issues, so, if > >>we could *please* keep the discussion for now (1) on the main > >>list and (2) agree/disagree answer to the following question, > >>after you've read (as much as you wish to) of the essay: > >> > >>I would like Lojban to remain as close as it possibly can to its > >>current state, regardless of whether I or a group of experienced > >>Lojbanists see that improvements could be made. > >> > >>Agree or disagree? > > Both, depending on timeframe and definitions of terms. > > Lojban needs to remain stable and resistant to change, especially > in the near term. When numbers of Lojbanists and formal > documentation are both strong enough, then "improvements" will > generally be made by usage, not by fiat, with skilled Lojbanists > being the only ones having the capability to demonstrate and > explain their variant usages in-language, and other skilled > Lojbanists voting-with-their-usage to adopt the variation. > > That is what the phrase "let usage decide" was supposed to refer > to - the asymptotic reduction of change-by-fiat to nil, in favor > of natural evolution through usage. Shakespeare introduced > considerable new vocabulary and usage to the English language, and > needed no byfy to approve his efforts. Then we are on opposite sides, I'm afraid; I now think this is a terrible plan, and I do not want to be a part of it. (and, for the record, this is exactly what i understood "let usage decide" to mean) -Robin -- They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.