From 3Ar28SwkJBscn0q.4156ntznvy.p1zy1won0t11tyrt41725.p1z@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Apr 07 10:13:05 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f160.google.com ([209.85.211.160]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3Ar28SwkJBscn0q.4156ntznvy.p1zy1won0t11tyrt41725.p1z@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NzYoC-0006cX-SZ for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:13:04 -0700 Received: by ywh32 with SMTP id 32sf544646ywh.28 for ; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:12:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:message-id:date :from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=UXgzcCvuMW7QRGp+9nMg6iJs8+EnqzIEKgjKUJhpUw8=; b=Mrye4qkfbgEaVPXTP5xRo25txw6i/96pijU9MMX2jF9giaT9PXHsNiB/Ln9l7WINhm BWV+ke4jSluW92ov5UjUYvFQbxDodteoG6Exka/8pSOpqHqQ+C6Ps1Wd+3hKmT0R9x9G 12IQJqKo8asBi1amifaQORWmjjRiX9ClT1YQY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=A6X82Kr5867KhuLKuSwS4ewXHB4tAdH+sHg53KMs7Us0v7y/54y7OhymUN//3vlj3k /nh260RN85LW5YOh795M8nDEqzLZcxp+NbInKhWuaHLxpKz4E01ypKT6A5+F5mDqtqS5 3xwUEHCsxqM85yn3YhQGyolOOBN9MFFxjYr6E= Received: by 10.91.91.7 with SMTP id t7mr741313agl.45.1270660354395; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:12:34 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.223.32.71 with SMTP id b7ls1928304fad.0.p; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:12:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.51.65 with SMTP id c1mr610024fag.0.1270660352476; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.51.65 with SMTP id c1mr610022fag.0.1270660352437; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:12:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com (mail-bw0-f215.google.com [209.85.218.215]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si1161464fxm.13.2010.04.07.10.12.31; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 209.85.218.215 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.218.215; Received: by mail-bw0-f215.google.com with SMTP id 7so1129076bwz.36 for ; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.7.82 with SMTP id c18mr1004200bkc.97.1270660351137; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.67] (87-194-76-9.bethere.co.uk [87.194.76.9]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d5sm124417672bkd.19.2010.04.07.10.12.29 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 07 Apr 2010 10:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4BBCBCFC.4050700@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 18:12:28 +0100 From: And Rosta User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Tangent: Is there a better grammar? References: <0014852d325d4f68180483a09bbd@google.com> In-Reply-To: <0014852d325d4f68180483a09bbd@google.com> X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 209.85.218.215 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=and.rosta@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: and.rosta@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/6d4e31b897cbe4b1 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/f1f38cc8519943ef Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Geoff Beresford: > Does anyone know if lojban texts have=20 > statistically more/less syllables than their english/natural language=20 > equivalents? I suppose to be truly fair, those stats might need to=20 > include texts composed in lojban and then translated into english as well= ... What happens in practice with translation is that the translator throws awa= y some of the information in the original until the translation is approxim= ately comparable to the original in length or surface complexity. And I'm s= ure it's the case that what people actually say is driven partly by how muc= h effort (in breath or keystrokes) it takes to say it. I'm at a loss to think of a fair way to compare languages for conciseness. = Typically a language has ways of encoding certain stuff very concisely and = then expresses the rest not at all or only very cumbersomely.=20 --And. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.