From 3k8i8SwgSBmQTNRQYGNNFKIKVCNMKPIFQO.QTINQLDCPIQQINGITQWRU.EQO@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Apr 07 11:02:22 2010 Received: from mail-pw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3k8i8SwgSBmQTNRQYGNNFKIKVCNMKPIFQO.QTINQLDCPIQQINGITQWRU.EQO@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NzZZw-0001iy-Aw for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 11:02:21 -0700 Received: by pwi3 with SMTP id 3sf397391pwi.16 for ; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 11:02:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; bh=cwzW+UkP7Yk+C/a8gyaJ39F0xYgnuBus7g8DXQXcN7s=; b=cphUaZmZUbtUetfHyyDTUUiOQgnciBtPYUImQv1OwzboDqv4rDLDzn/WrHvEqpuCn2 rhUCEq2I3o5NK2v4ad/XqyTcAxmPTLkijsO+LZnPI6cGAuuJcEQBf3g2GQ6vM4psyNWh DQDV6YB4gTFO1HPiF24qGSUm1THQeCsiaGuIY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; b=hTWoQlakdUvDUR0ztHH+MzdNy+KhEivTJJYiIBA60VI95Wp8koTqzzupVqmitEhyq2 MJee8xLL91gBoNV1xoHi5qUJhH3SHDfy1b/J9n0+yWE6n4MI0bHu7snvhtxyGhvFQGRw FO2Q5J2KsOkCjwRZlfLK8aLBdegm2YOzuYG+M= Received: by 10.140.238.10 with SMTP id l10mr604733rvh.12.1270663315472; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 11:01:55 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.141.53.13 with SMTP id f13ls917888rvk.3.p; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 11:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.4.8 with SMTP id g8mr1451701rvi.10.1270663313856; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 11:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.4.8 with SMTP id g8mr1451700rvi.10.1270663313834; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 11:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail6.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail6.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.8]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 24si3086240pzk.1.2010.04.07.11.01.53; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 11:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.8 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) client-ip=69.17.117.8; Received: (qmail 201 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2010 18:01:53 -0000 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 7 Apr 2010 18:01:53 -0000 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NzZZY-0001fN-K7 for lojban@googlegroups.com; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 11:01:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 11:01:52 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-announcements] Essay on the future of Lojban, with a simple poll for the community. Message-ID: <20100407180152.GI11541@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> <4BBC3CE4.6080803@lojban.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4BBC3CE4.6080803@lojban.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.8 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/c67f210addc06a0c X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/bbd799657df05bff Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 04:05:56AM -0400, Bob LeChevalier wrote: > Lojban needs to remain stable and resistant to change, especially > in the near term. When numbers of Lojbanists and formal > documentation are both strong enough, then "improvements" will > generally be made by usage, not by fiat, with skilled Lojbanists > being the only ones having the capability to demonstrate and > explain their variant usages in-language, and other skilled > Lojbanists voting-with-their-usage to adopt the variation. The problem is this will never, ever happen. Knowing Lojbanists as I do, what would actually happen is we'd argue about things and then decide what to adopt explicitely, and *then* go out and use it. This is very much not anything like real language drift, which is what you seem to have in mind. -Robin -- They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.