From 3s-m8SwMHBqUFWOSaL.TWLQTOGFSLTTLQJLWTZUX.HTR@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Apr 07 13:23:39 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3s-m8SwMHBqUFWOSaL.TWLQTOGFSLTTLQJLWTZUX.HTR@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nzbmi-0001Zz-HI for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:23:39 -0700 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5sf691242gyd.16 for ; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:23:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-nvg-mailscanner-information:x-nvg-mailscanner:x-mailscanner-from :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PZgAeCykkvktx78aLo0o58pMm3CxGrHtu3BQVRThpoE=; b=hPcBLwNQNM/srWvMjjPWOLb/o95nmwY1dctg34arZnIqrs7qXKQzw88BflrnZ3X0+c /GYvjjhIZc+pPiOjRwfx0eqn77TCaEGpnUet2tspvtbsvXEvm1LggXGiiE61orhcPY4n Hzb2MPM1JTT31D9D5VKeCjQ1eqJgBcUmNgdp0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-nvg-mailscanner-information :x-nvg-mailscanner:x-mailscanner-from :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; b=xn+xUBnDB6SOdEpNheOIesiyofbcRnapbxiEZi2xhD7Pp+jQck3/oAeqn4fjl/OUjh lZu7V8zPjF5vyKpCakynciET1SZtFvmQ6px4DERGScbGi/vBgt4Xoyyua2eCK7+vh5O9 rtNWY7eiU0RBiXvpp5+soc2m3SMMIB9w5Ntb0= Received: by 10.91.59.20 with SMTP id m20mr764832agk.40.1270671795601; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:23:15 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.2.77 with SMTP id 13ls1064839ebi.0.p; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.25.72 with SMTP id y8mr928363ebb.2.1270671792151; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.25.72 with SMTP id y8mr928362ebb.2.1270671792123; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no (sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no [129.241.210.67]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 11si965713ewy.5.2010.04.07.13.23.11; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of arj@nvg.ntnu.no designates 129.241.210.67 as permitted sender) client-ip=129.241.210.67; Received: from hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (unknown [IPv6:2001:700:300:2000:2a0:c9ff:feab:76e2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD68494783 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2010 22:23:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (8.13.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id o37KN2rv027797 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2010 22:23:02 +0200 Received: (from arj@localhost) by hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (8.13.8/8.13.1/Submit) id o37KMxIu027796 for lojban@googlegroups.com; Wed, 7 Apr 2010 22:22:59 +0200 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 22:22:59 +0200 From: Arnt Richard Johansen To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] [lojban-announcements] Essay on the future of Lojban, with a simple poll for the community. Message-ID: <20100407202259.GM3000@nvg.org> References: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-NVG-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NVG-MailScanner: Not scanned: please contact your Internet E-Mail Service Provider for details X-MailScanner-From: arj@nvg.ntnu.no X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of arj@nvg.ntnu.no designates 129.241.210.67 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=arj@nvg.ntnu.no X-Original-Sender: arj@nvg.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/c67f210addc06a0c X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/9e17ef2c490d2f1a Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 02:02:25PM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > I would like Lojban to remain as close as it possibly can to its > current state, regardless of whether I or a group of experienced > Lojbanists see that improvements could be made. >=20 > Agree or disagree? I used to believe that the most important thing for the regular user and le= arner of Lojban was that the language should not change from under their fe= et, so that the effort spent learning it would not go to waste. But the responses I've seen to this poll from beginners and old-timers alik= e have convinced me that, if this was the prevailing opinion fifteen years = ago, it is certainly not the prevailing opinion now. It does give me pause that the LLG now appears to be on the course to break= ing the promise it made in CLL in 1997: =93You can learn the language descr= ibed here with assurance that (unlike previous versions of Lojban and Logla= n, as well as most other artificial languages) it will not be subject to fu= rther fiddling by language-meisters.=94 But, since the community does not s= eem to care that much about stability, maybe that does not after all repres= ent a fatal blow to the LLG's credibility? In any case, from now on I will stop arguing for conservatism on behalf of = a silent majority that turns out to nothing but a product of confirmation b= ias and wishful thinking. (I may still protest if the BPFK tries to effect a change that I, personall= y, find too difficult to learn, but I don't expect such objections to carry= much force.) --=20 Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/ The names of a species, empire, language, homeworld, homestar and so on will all be self-evidently related; Ogrons come from Ogros, Arisians come from Arisia, Arcturans come from Arcturus, and Humans no doubt come from Humus. --Justin B. Rye in A Primer In SF Xenolinguistics --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.