From 3MfK8SwgSBiwZTXWeMTTLQOQbITSQVOLWU.WZOTWRJIVOWWOTMOZWcXa.KWU@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Apr 07 13:59:54 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f143.google.com ([209.85.222.143]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3MfK8SwgSBiwZTXWeMTTLQOQbITSQVOLWU.WZOTWRJIVOWWOTMOZWcXa.KWU@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NzcLm-0003Ch-H8 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:59:53 -0700 Received: by pzk7 with SMTP id 7sf461204pzk.26 for ; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:59:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; bh=IGd9kJG36NCIvDYtxolCoc6wtJyoT0J1+s/XmYHNCXo=; b=taUKcTZK8HJvWcpptnSwGiwKv98w+pH5MVHRv1aF+raxx1Lqjf02TiHS4QAZGpvbOS SH4z//ZeS9ZPEaBh8vo4Ok6RBbtUpTvlG20RBTCvTjFAXXs8HIQGO5U52C3/A5YxGsfo kICJMI4OMD+A9jE31HKCO9EcaSxp6M8OyQ2dM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; b=2iPGm7iT/1R2K8hAgjYH16teSJr/EELYAKYvC4Y0jQ22spUrRFVwdBvWgYsuOYZMf6 XyDh2Qz8e/XGUelDxu+g3/Gzc0ZCMa6n3uwT+Fh3XFchDtcZBr6fvxwGm/lkYz9NEyD1 r9wyekgGjd8T15nczbo+4TcSV1Jq0ybF1tJnc= Received: by 10.142.248.35 with SMTP id v35mr364697wfh.47.1270673969448; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:59:29 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.250.36 with SMTP id x36ls1643503wfh.2.p; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.3.29 with SMTP id 29mr1511544wfc.9.1270673967564; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.3.29 with SMTP id 29mr1511543wfc.9.1270673967537; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail7.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail7.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.9]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 25si3120067pzk.8.2010.04.07.13.59.27; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.9 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) client-ip=69.17.117.9; Received: (qmail 4360 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2010 20:59:27 -0000 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail7.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 7 Apr 2010 20:59:27 -0000 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NzcLN-0003CU-Jh for lojban@googlegroups.com; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:59:25 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 13:59:25 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] [lojban-announcements] Essay on the future of Lojban, with a simple poll for the community. Message-ID: <20100407205925.GP11541@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> <20100407202259.GM3000@nvg.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.9 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/c67f210addc06a0c X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/7b6d12719edfd758 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm proposing setting a group of experienced Lojbanists with the task of making these sorts of decisions; if you're worried, join up and help. As far as I'm aware, no-one is proposing the sorts of things you're worried about. -Robin On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 04:30:25PM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote: > Just to clarify, we're not talking about huge re-constructional > changes here are we? We're talking about things like xorlo and > dotside. If I have to re-learn the gismu that I know now and > re-understand a new tense system, I would change my vote. But as > I suspect that what RLPowell is talking about is nothing so > drastic as all that, I'm ok with change. >=20 > On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Arnt Richard Johansen > wrote: >=20 > > On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 02:02:25PM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > I would like Lojban to remain as close as it possibly can to its > > > current state, regardless of whether I or a group of experienced > > > Lojbanists see that improvements could be made. > > > > > > Agree or disagree? > > > > I used to believe that the most important thing for the regular user an= d > > learner of Lojban was that the language should not change from under th= eir > > feet, so that the effort spent learning it would not go to waste. > > > > But the responses I've seen to this poll from beginners and old-timers > > alike have convinced me that, if this was the prevailing opinion fiftee= n > > years ago, it is certainly not the prevailing opinion now. > > > > It does give me pause that the LLG now appears to be on the course to > > breaking the promise it made in CLL in 1997: =93You can learn the langu= age > > described here with assurance that (unlike previous versions of Lojban = and > > Loglan, as well as most other artificial languages) it will not be subj= ect > > to further fiddling by language-meisters.=94 But, since the community d= oes not > > seem to care that much about stability, maybe that does not after all > > represent a fatal blow to the LLG's credibility? > > > > In any case, from now on I will stop arguing for conservatism on behalf= of > > a silent majority that turns out to nothing but a product of confirmati= on > > bias and wishful thinking. > > > > (I may still protest if the BPFK tries to effect a change that I, > > personally, find too difficult to learn, but I don't expect such object= ions > > to carry much force.) > > > > -- > > Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org= / > > The names of a species, empire, language, homeworld, homestar and so > > on will all be self-evidently related; Ogrons come from Ogros, > > Arisians come from Arisia, Arcturans come from Arcturus, and Humans no > > doubt come from Humus. --Justin B. Rye in A Primer In SF Xenolinguistic= s > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps > > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > > > >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 --=20 They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.