From 33fO8SwgSBtk5G5IKJNONPIAGJR9MMDQ9M.JMBGJE65IBJJBG9BMJPKN.7JH@groups.bounces.google.com Wed Apr 07 14:07:02 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f140.google.com ([209.85.210.140]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <33fO8SwgSBtk5G5IKJNONPIAGJR9MMDQ9M.JMBGJE65IBJJBG9BMJPKN.7JH@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NzcSf-000447-Up for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 14:07:02 -0700 Received: by yxe4 with SMTP id 4sf625701yxe.28 for ; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 14:06:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from :to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; bh=JYWQZdS5WZpja6njNP1l4WIs+GUekj0L0Vhvy276/rU=; b=RdPBH0lSrXsPOYqttgclo1ImNlYgVZN6RRITir6rvFq7uTt2fbu+q7JH21AZYKt/Jj fnaRHTpAC79LBra4tYwx4WEcwwRNVk1zB6Z5TrBCZ9KoghyaEw7NPpa2UX+l50hIr6Vc Ja4JQb3J00jS66jQtVMz5Sxi4sInWAwlITMAQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition :content-transfer-encoding; b=cB2T+ZjhcAU5WDRAnlMmXxMx5BiAaIA/u/wFxMXi7layaH/X0eSG4uAWRBfISb45Ns 8DhznVkazVqnzkivywEv3n9ljCJNhkXiZTJG2hvbmZ5H9S6oyQTSQkNLbZ8/u7vJG2XH DrtCagc7ysi5BAImYCpl4QEEx/1R8GLqjMKdc= Received: by 10.91.59.11 with SMTP id m11mr768155agk.9.1270674397082; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 14:06:37 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.86.126.32 with SMTP id y32ls1184648fgc.0.p; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 14:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.87.63.25 with SMTP id q25mr589321fgk.16.1270674395772; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 14:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.137.151 with SMTP id w23mr484020bkt.28.1270674000541; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 14:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.137.151 with SMTP id w23mr484018bkt.28.1270674000507; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 14:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f173.google.com (mail-iw0-f173.google.com [209.85.223.173]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id h3si9707594bke.4.2010.04.07.13.59.59; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 14:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.223.173 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=209.85.223.173; Received: by mail-iw0-f173.google.com with SMTP id 3so1034740iwn.3 for ; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.148.16 with SMTP id n16mr4301838ibv.37.1270673999642; Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.10.243.253]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j42sm11437678ibr.19.2010.04.07.13.59.58 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 14:59:54 -0600 From: Alan Post To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] [lojban-announcements] Essay on the future of Lojban, with a simple poll for the community. Message-ID: <20100407205954.GF597@alice.local> References: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> <20100407202259.GM3000@nvg.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20100407202259.GM3000@nvg.org> X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.223.173 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org X-Original-Sender: alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/c67f210addc06a0c X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/2b8aaf49b8589ce Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 10:22:59PM +0200, Arnt Richard Johansen wrote: > On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 02:02:25PM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > I would like Lojban to remain as close as it possibly can to its > > current state, regardless of whether I or a group of experienced > > Lojbanists see that improvements could be made. > >=20 > > Agree or disagree? >=20 > I used to believe that the most important thing for the regular user and = learner of Lojban was that the language should not change from under their = feet, so that the effort spent learning it would not go to waste. >=20 > But the responses I've seen to this poll from beginners and old-timers al= ike have convinced me that, if this was the prevailing opinion fifteen year= s ago, it is certainly not the prevailing opinion now. >=20 > It does give me pause that the LLG now appears to be on the course to bre= aking the promise it made in CLL in 1997: =93You can learn the language des= cribed here with assurance that (unlike previous versions of Lojban and Log= lan, as well as most other artificial languages) it will not be subject to = further fiddling by language-meisters.=94 But, since the community does not= seem to care that much about stability, maybe that does not after all repr= esent a fatal blow to the LLG's credibility? >=20 > In any case, from now on I will stop arguing for conservatism on behalf o= f a silent majority that turns out to nothing but a product of confirmation= bias and wishful thinking. >=20 > (I may still protest if the BPFK tries to effect a change that I, persona= lly, find too difficult to learn, but I don't expect such objections to car= ry much force.) >=20 I've wondered, either through wording of the question Robin posed, or from the frame established by the essay itself, whether there is an environment here that has made it difficult to hold another/the other position. I'm personally a bit surprised to have not heard more voices across the "agree" spectrum. I can't conclude from that silence that they aren't there, as it would be more likely they are marginalized by the current atmosphere. I personally am interested in hearing more voices on the other side(s) of this issue. -Alan --=20 te djuno lo do sevzi --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.