From 3ftG9SwoJBlkAACC1D291J7D19C.3FDCFA21E7FF7C57IFLGJ.3FD@groups.bounces.google.com Thu Apr 08 05:52:49 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f160.google.com ([209.85.211.160]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3ftG9SwoJBlkAACC1D291J7D19C.3FDCFA21E7FF7C57IFLGJ.3FD@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NzrDw-0007Vc-2m for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 05:52:49 -0700 Received: by ywh32 with SMTP id 32sf970952ywh.28 for ; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 05:52:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=UniXZz2OVxwJ5DEyRCRoboLnwGRzIbGfNfppBjElKNk=; b=a5JSewzoK79qlYaCwIHsm5MDkd219Mprz1cRdZ7yRUR5NHFjH7rINrB9HQGSk55pJu C43h7HntinVulFMTZDlzz59g1T1m2UdVVpXrMsMqeOImYzP2iOqGD2lKtF4xlLE05uv8 7UjXtCfCCXLkorMprNALLVdXcLBV19nJvzQFs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=bAhEtQWGT/YMskzCX4EsfyMtZWmobQ5qiaLV+IsF+fr5KIsspwGUfVmwA3SWYBqYZ3 bEGfUQVJSQYylPWIXIj4B9Dv4WLPYnoLBmGE+yFWdGpO7XfIEHGJ7JD0W1IsccmlZPgS gIBDMgMZ5hEes8nyBOWJhqi1OSWdGSyqr5Oic= Received: by 10.91.91.7 with SMTP id t7mr29412agl.45.1270731134513; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 05:52:14 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.35.68 with SMTP id o4ls3056128bkd.1.p; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 05:52:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.38.76 with SMTP id a12mr5181bke.34.1270731130322; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 05:52:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.38.76 with SMTP id a12mr5180bke.34.1270731130302; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 05:52:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qy0-f201.google.com (mail-qy0-f201.google.com [209.85.221.201]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id e24si50052bke.6.2010.04.08.05.52.08; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 05:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.201 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.201; Received: by mail-qy0-f201.google.com with SMTP id 39so931753qyk.24 for ; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 05:52:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.91.212 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Apr 2010 05:52:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5fead1bc-c9b4-42cd-83b4-f01661ff1bd1@x3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> References: <201004062259.07334.phma@phma.optus.nu> <5fead1bc-c9b4-42cd-83b4-f01661ff1bd1@x3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 09:52:07 -0300 Received: by 10.229.14.157 with SMTP id g29mr122203qca.57.1270731127960; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 05:52:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: "any John" -- is it possible to translate this? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.201 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/287899a54f24bd6a X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/94ed57b309524424 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 4:27 AM, tijlan wrote: > > I understand that "ro da zo'u la djon po'u da cu broda" differs from > "la djon po'u ro da cu broda" because a different value is picked for > each "da" according to its own scope =A0order; It's not just that. In "ro da zo'u la djon po'u da cu broda", for each value of "da" we could pick a different John. In "la djon po'u ro da cu broda", the same John has to be picked for all the values of "da". "roda po'u la djon" =3D Everyone who is (a) John. "la djon po'u roda" =3D (The) John who is everyone. > but I don't see why "da" > in "la djon po'u ro da cu broda" cannot mean any sumti which serves to > restrictively identify "la djon", as in "la djon poi ro da poi steci > ke'a la djon zo'u ke'a du da cu broda". Right, but in "any John" we don't want to restrictively identify some particular John, we want to quantify over all Johns. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.