From 3sAW-SwgSBr8wqut1jqqinlnyfqpnslitr.twlqtogfslttlqjlwtzux.htr@groups.bounces.google.com Thu Apr 08 09:35:23 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f139.google.com ([209.85.222.139]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3sAW-SwgSBr8wqut1jqqinlnyfqpnslitr.twlqtogfslttlqjlwtzux.htr@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NzuhJ-0002dK-NP for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:35:22 -0700 Received: by pzk3 with SMTP id 3sf637360pzk.28 for ; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:35:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; bh=PcaGFbAPSP38W6NuBGFO9tlFpQr5ujERWFmeKKBMjuA=; b=qlSCWQNL8VivWvwRuG1IlpgNtR7n7A2omvqNh/Uq3VZAPtKgHeBr1ooSqgT7QzqQsA 89eTg3JvIvBgajRVYDxYssKBJXHQSI7YndxDG1sOo/xASdm+DnjgHH/M8x6wYPhKt69v EGyZ3U0oQDwdBtS6wkfT8QcaJCQ0uG01/h2NM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition; b=rLflFdWXw4VzSlf14nGelPXnA9oWNIjRQww08N4ohn7XJOIB8quIhOYFksMTDdzQmV pYNrhAz59REwYszXLpdqucFT/psy4ju1rog1q9pHnofhdqJc2Lr7xgGFjTdhoQw4ZPxJ OfVUZVF3tFM9wYOsKa7NNmBX8p8Pbwhf7cP0Q= Received: by 10.141.125.16 with SMTP id c16mr44832rvn.18.1270744496454; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:34:56 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.141.188.22 with SMTP id q22ls3137569rvp.1.p; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:34:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.22.14 with SMTP id z14mr68488rvi.18.1270744494348; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:34:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.22.14 with SMTP id z14mr68487rvi.18.1270744494269; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:34:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.7]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 19si40765pzk.7.2010.04.08.09.34.54; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:34:54 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.7 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) client-ip=69.17.117.7; Received: (qmail 10070 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2010 16:34:53 -0000 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail5.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 8 Apr 2010 16:34:53 -0000 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Nzugs-0002YZ-BQ for lojban@googlegroups.com; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:34:50 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 09:34:50 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-announcements] Essay on the future of Lojban, with a simple poll for the community. Message-ID: <20100408163450.GY11541@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> <4BBC3CE4.6080803@lojban.org> <4BBDECA2.5000500@lojban.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.17.117.7 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/c67f210addc06a0c X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/1114db514aa2c474 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Apr 08, 2010 at 11:26:29AM -0400, Luke Bergen wrote: > > And what specifically do you want to *do* to change that pattern? > > From my perspective, Bob, one really significant change comes from the first > bullet point: > > The BPFK should be open to anyone who is seriously working > on learning the language > > That proposal alone seems like it could have a huge effect on the > potential future success of the BPFK. I can think of a few people > off the top of my head who are extremely interested in lojban and > seem to have some good ideas about it that aren't on the BPFK > official. That's *ALWAYS* been the case. I've *begged* people to join the BPFK. Begged and begged and begged and begged. I always get utter silence. .o'o nai sai > Please correct me if I'm wrong Robin, but I think one of your > hopes for this proposal is that the community actually take more > of an active role in defining the language. Where "community" > does NOT mean "noobs who come to the list and complain that x, y, > and z don't make sense" but rather "people who know the language > and have real ideas about how to improve/fix it". Actually, I've long since totally given up on that; the people who are willing to do the hard/tedious work (which is basically me, xorxes and Arnt) are all we're ever going to get, as far as I can tell. I've been trying to find new people who are willing to do actual work that needs doing (as opposed to their own pet projects) for nigh on 10 years now; I fucking give up. If someone shows up, great, but I'm not looking or expecting. My major hope was to give xorxes and I the freedom to actually fix things (which it seems we have the mandate from the community on), and bring Arnt to our side (apparently also done). I'm willing to do the grunt work of filling in all the boring BPFK sections, which no-one else seems to be, but I was not willing to do it if my work was going to be blocked by the conservative arm of the BPFK at every turn; since this now conists solely of Bob, I'm less worried, and expect to get to work soon. -Robin -- They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons." And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.