From 3RQe-SwYKBlY9C7zyz9C7zyB.CF49C7zyB4CC4924FCIDG.0CA@groups.bounces.google.com Thu Apr 08 09:42:08 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f166.google.com ([209.85.221.166]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3RQe-SwYKBlY9C7zyz9C7zyB.CF49C7zyB4CC4924FCIDG.0CA@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nzunr-00032k-AN for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:42:07 -0700 Received: by qyk38 with SMTP id 38sf1215754qyk.1 for ; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:41:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:received:x-vr-score :x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score:message-id:date:from:user-agent :x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=oRR/xQpC50SP0aDU/KTEwUHNt+CRBRfFTMKa/o88RDM=; b=ob6n5HQA/w9KZItp40YQc+qHsCrGr6TxawlqAGiGSQ0kOs+JUvNemJQPRY9zL10Y/+ acbfgmgL3Xv5dD9pPUqSPPKRNEQzuX6MMGyITb2aQDARvkeej6Z2bAiM5Y6w5l7G2UKm 6PGB5ygZTVcdbgjUm677ob/UV0RBgLKdTZ//w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-vr-score:x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score :message-id:date:from:user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=6MLBjdVJxr9hNRFab2kMUdcjEkZsEI1WkWNUTrxb2MOgqW1KS/LPn0VP4FpMYwNLnA jq10QQI2mH6JeLtUbA74nP6FyO+bvrRyHeTNSlAv8dFA53keGT8kcnq2GG55HPL97+Yz bnAqetVicxhn17YluJHwqL4ulXh95eO0wq3Yo= Received: by 10.224.112.3 with SMTP id u3mr17735qap.3.1270744901487; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:41:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.38.138 with SMTP id b10ls2061095qae.4.p; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.45.7 with SMTP id c7mr40432qaf.9.1270744900394; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.74.69 with SMTP id t5mr79638vcj.14.1270742538718; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.74.69 with SMTP id t5mr79637vcj.14.1270742538673; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eastrmmtao107.cox.net (eastrmmtao107.cox.net [68.230.240.59]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 25si536497vws.0.2010.04.08.09.02.18; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.59 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.240.59; Received: from eastrmimpo03.cox.net ([68.1.16.126]) by eastrmmtao107.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100408160217.KSEM23683.eastrmmtao107.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2010 12:02:17 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([70.187.225.124]) by eastrmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id 342H1e00A2hfrC60242HsS; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:02:18 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=garkv6WxUlWCZxlYffz6yNGlDVHTZyAXTUdcTJEJ4sc= c=1 sm=1 a=Jk7DClovP2YA:10 a=N659UExz7-8A:10 a=lsg66w07okjF3vGJL2g+Jw==:17 a=jKH_VWTcHbuaxzHekzgA:9 a=KDw59JUQcDratiVJ2kUA:7 a=W7_AeH0jRMVTlqOSTrWWECMRR5sA:4 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=tCcGUOCMh4ysK73j:21 a=zM8-tfSU6ENCW8jL:21 a=lsg66w07okjF3vGJL2g+Jw==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <4BBDFDF2.7040100@lojban.org> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:01:54 -0400 From: Bob LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] [lojban-announcements] Essay on the future of Lojban, with a simple poll for the community. References: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> <20100407202259.GM3000@nvg.org> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.59 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/c67f210addc06a0c X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/676ad9915ae7166f Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Luke Bergen wrote: > Just to clarify, we're not talking about huge re-constructional changes > here are we? We're talking about things like xorlo and dotside. If I > have to re-learn the gismu that I know now and re-understand a new tense > system, I would change my vote. But as I suspect that what RLPowell is > talking about is nothing so drastic as all that, I'm ok with change. I see nothing in Robin's proposal that restricts the degree of change that could be permitted. backwards-compatability is 4th among 4 goals, and the other three are sufficiently broad in scope that it likely would never come into play (indeed, "unlike other languages" sounds like a guaranteed force for huge-reconstructional change). Imposing a well-defined but unique tonal system using a Unicode-compatible but utterly weird alphabet would seem to ideally fit all of the first three goals. So adopting his proposal means accepting whatever the powers that be decide meets the criteria, and hoping for their goodwill. Robin may be a good guy who would never abuse the authority, but he is only one person. We don't know that the byfy of 5 years from now will even include Robin (or that he won't be outvoted by his own 80% rule as a result of someone packing the vote - since anyone who wants to can apparently be part of byfy and vote). If we were at the point where all such discussion of change was taking place only in Lojban, and byfy was doing its work only in Lojban, I would be far less worried. lojbab -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.