From 3Rge-SwYKBlcAD80z0AD80zC.DG5AD80zC5DD5A35GDJEH.1DB@groups.bounces.google.com Thu Apr 08 09:42:10 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3Rge-SwYKBlcAD80z0AD80zC.DG5AD80zC5DD5A35GDJEH.1DB@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nzuns-00032t-Gu for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:42:09 -0700 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5sf1220412gyd.16 for ; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:41:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:received:x-vr-score :x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score:message-id:date:from:user-agent :x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=a/fUOIM/etX3hasasxSs9oeomnB21jkt+G4arhkAcx4=; b=lL9xtrqoSinxD05odDXWmFGMbfDqb2XIig3MDXrfOVuzDx1zXzq+D/fEdjv4481/4n MjBsRx4Lfchgzu031mbgbp4/tJZ6y+1rkH3UqdNg0V+Tjhr5ADwHSplvtJQnsyfEyNea RpjpIX9p9Ky17rgWAhTZ8MEazJr0GfpSaxoqE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-vr-score:x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score :message-id:date:from:user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=WGETNupdL1ghwqiUhzbn/yiTL/1YKu4pGi08dO/D5iJwfEhvxE+gJS4lb+DzRbKTi2 /rB6sGjxETVneMBlt5pOYwJ00tADMnq9UdSV7V7guoi4zQGCp+2uQUwPxmT7RutfuapC AWFfJvXk/FHipDoGd65cEy0XcZScLfsTS9Chc= Received: by 10.150.174.5 with SMTP id w5mr27589ybe.46.1270744902267; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:41:42 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.234.22 with SMTP id g22ls1027295ybh.7.p; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.120.32 with SMTP id s32mr475254ybc.14.1270744901126; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.91.150.2 with SMTP id c2mr454131ago.13.1270744694866; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.91.150.2 with SMTP id c2mr453957ago.13.1270744682408; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eastrmmtao103.cox.net (eastrmmtao103.cox.net [68.230.240.9]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si14838yxe.8.2010.04.08.09.38.01; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.9 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.240.9; Received: from eastrmimpo01.cox.net ([68.1.16.119]) by eastrmmtao103.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100408163802.LDDU27114.eastrmmtao103.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2010 12:38:02 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([70.187.225.124]) by eastrmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id 34e11e00H2hfrC6024e1GX; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:38:01 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=u9aaE4Pfr0xy9UvPxuh9qFR1i2SV5RyaXjJQawTgqeY= c=1 sm=1 a=vaWviJ_AJkYA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=lsg66w07okjF3vGJL2g+Jw==:17 a=AvexYjMqXhAkscQQn4YA:9 a=lwUYiqQ-yZd5eRPCweEA:7 a=0CYmC-SjEId_TF02iTimMhAju0wA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=lsg66w07okjF3vGJL2g+Jw==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <4BBE0652.8020606@lojban.org> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:37:38 -0400 From: Bob LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-announcements] Essay on the future of Lojban, with a simple poll for the community. References: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> <4BBC3CE4.6080803@lojban.org> <4BBDECA2.5000500@lojban.org> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.9 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/c67f210addc06a0c X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/91e9667ec8d195a0 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Luke Bergen wrote: > From my perspective, Bob, one really significant change comes from the > first bullet point: > The BPFK should be open to anyone who is seriously working on learning > the language > > That proposal alone seems like it could have a huge effect on the > potential future success of the BPFK. I can think of a few people off > the top of my head who are extremely interested in lojban and seem to > have some good ideas about it that aren't on the BPFK official. > > Please correct me if I'm wrong Robin, but I think one of your hopes for > this proposal is that the community actually take more of an active role > in defining the language. Where "community" does NOT mean "noobs who > come to the list and complain that x, y, and z don't make sense" but > rather "people who know the language and have real ideas about how to > improve/fix it". As byfy jatna, Robin has complete authority to add to, or subtract from, the membership of byfy based on whatever parameters he chooses. He could in theory be overridden by the Board or the membership if he did something abusive of this power. But adding more people who know the language isn't likely to ever be one of them. It is the "improve/fix it" that doesn't yet belong. The byfy should be completing the documentation of the status quo, and THEN can consider fixes or improvements which are NECESSARY for the language to succeed. Then, after the documentation is done and the baseline is declared, discussion of possible changes by anyone who knows the language well enough to discuss their ideas in Lojban is fair game, with the rules forbidding any official decision to make a change for at least 5 years (what people decide or agree to do before then is "letting usage decide"). lojbab -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.