From 3Ng--SwkJBk8r4u.859Arx3rz2.t53250sr4x55x2vx85B69.t53@groups.bounces.google.com Thu Apr 08 10:16:00 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3Ng--SwkJBk8r4u.859Arx3rz2.t53250sr4x55x2vx85B69.t53@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1NzvKd-0005rr-NF for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 10:16:00 -0700 Received: by gwj21 with SMTP id 21sf1040592gwj.16 for ; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 10:15:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:message-id:date :from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=q9X09Uee3cJAbzc6lix1mQVjrsDx9TgJ8xSIrORQ93s=; b=oshT5AKDDB8Buv5sfZzKL25UtNl8q5/RHjd3WeeS9KQDjuJ93M8B9LcFydGIYkAaz6 nLXy8y1Bz9R3cCdN7p/YaBvQdXu/I9+hD8TTzWMOTlMZ0rnY+ehbl1vqDviWzlgAtMOJ g8Hj5BTyzN5qL4pYDzqoUJdcxIQPQ5fsyvkYk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=DNHY81nDV9720+E8yIz7DSZUVM5XBU6c4TLFM5m++0ix5O0IUEHLCNd+4dvZVwDfRm adzgqY1Jyrtbz2/5y5K8dfQnT1iaNviwSJ/dGQdQOV46vGvQtFQOPyukx2MaaKQRcFqh WWLx4j8dopA55OJcDoXkrlqAnyHGoU8VIUZqQ= Received: by 10.91.49.16 with SMTP id b16mr87703agk.38.1270746934468; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 10:15:34 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.6.77 with SMTP id 13ls3054507bky.3.p; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 10:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.13.70 with SMTP id b6mr28771bka.37.1270746932338; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 10:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.13.70 with SMTP id b6mr28769bka.37.1270746932308; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 10:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f224.google.com (mail-bw0-f224.google.com [209.85.218.224]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 17si26199bwz.3.2010.04.08.10.15.31; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 10:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 209.85.218.224 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.218.224; Received: by bwz24 with SMTP id 24so2274684bwz.17 for ; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 10:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.82.227 with SMTP id c35mr443409bkl.174.1270746928585; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 10:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.67] (87-194-76-9.bethere.co.uk [87.194.76.9]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d5sm1990904bkd.13.2010.04.08.10.15.27 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 08 Apr 2010 10:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4BBE0F2D.6010309@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 18:15:25 +0100 From: And Rosta User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] [lojban-announcements] Essay on the future of Lojban, with a simple poll for the community. References: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> <20100407202259.GM3000@nvg.org> <20100407205925.GP11541@digitalkingdom.org> <4BBD1C23.9020600@gmail.com> <4BBE0353.6020002@lojban.org> In-Reply-To: <4BBE0353.6020002@lojban.org> X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 209.85.218.224 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=and.rosta@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: and.rosta@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/c67f210addc06a0c X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/38e9fa36e38ef9bf Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob LeChevalier, On 08/04/2010 17:24: > And Rosta wrote: >> One can imagine certain sensible rules of thumb applying, such as "If=20 >> a given improvement would result in nontrivial amounts of relearning,=20 >> then it is appropriate for Logban3 but not for Lojban". (Better change= =20 >> that to "If a given improvement would result in nontrivial amounts of=20 >> relearning, then it is appropriate for Logban3 but not for Lojban,=20 >> *unless it is a fix for something that is broken*" -- I'm thinking of=20 >> the pre-xorlo gadri system, the extraordinarily intense attempts to=20 >> fix which led to the establishment of the BPFK and its completely=20 >> irreconcilable various goals. >=20 > !!!??? >=20 > The gadri system had absolutely nothing to do with the establishment of= =20 > the byfy. It never even entered my mind. >=20 > The attempts to deal with gadri were primarily undertaken by the byfy=20 > under Nick's leadership, and I cannot fault his efforts at leadership on= =20 > that issue. >=20 > It was my failure to get a revised cmavo list (compatible with CLL) and= =20 > the ensuing dictionary done despite many promises over many years that=20 > made byfy necessary. The job needed to be delegated out of my hands to= =20 > a committee, while preserving all the good aspects that my prior role=20 > (which was too much akin to benevolent dictator before Cowan, and was at= =20 > risk of becoming so again when he indicated burnout after CLL was done). My possibly inaccurate recollection of my possibly inaccurate impression at= the time is that Nick returned to Lojban after an absence of some years, a= nd he was temperamentally a Conservative but also had enough linguistic nou= s to understand the Revisionists' arguments that the Lojban specification w= as massively incomplete and in some respects broken, most devastatingly in = the gadri system (given its centrality to the language). (At the time Nick = first went Lojban-inactive, the prevailing view was that CLL was going to b= e pretty much the final word on the specification of Lojban (lacking only t= he dictionary to be complete). Over the next few years the delusionality of= that view became clear to those capable of understanding the issues.) On b= ehalf of the board, Nick then announced the BPFK and led it. My impression = at the time was that he was the moving force behind the BPFK, and its const= itution did seem redolent of his approach to Lojban and linguistics, and th= at the Board b acked him as a trusty Conservative with expertise in linguistics. --And. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.