From 3dDG-SwMHBq8PgYckV.dgVadYQPcVddVaTVgdjeh.Rdb@groups.bounces.google.com Thu Apr 08 12:42:15 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f198.google.com ([209.85.217.198]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <3dDG-SwMHBq8PgYckV.dgVadYQPcVddVaTVgdjeh.Rdb@groups.bounces.google.com>) id 1Nzxc7-0002Eo-3j for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:42:14 -0700 Received: by gxk22 with SMTP id 22sf1434940gxk.4 for ; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:42:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-nvg-mailscanner-information:x-nvg-mailscanner:x-mailscanner-from :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GbIcYW3YD4kB30eR9ioqzXv4bHsFOD8MgjyxAY8txG0=; b=4LeAq7/h7caIoYfRebj04Zol2lKaIFePESOYJEjFiOihSa82nrMwvtktY4sqKs3bEf S6E1095NAQPDs+lgbbHu/IqvgqSnuEJehastrYNCF+AUQSgULK8VANa6XLEDYXHKtqVv e47CQYK4Gw4ZVieGZ9rLMXn1QY258WNDtmMo8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-nvg-mailscanner-information :x-nvg-mailscanner:x-mailscanner-from :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type:content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; b=SdSHRQx5pfDImmt+uIWjw7fRgNszHb40qAF+Xhd/3FbSIs/zR3gjDCN+fl2SzfIaMr PRiLSP9L2hIu72SwuQN5rH+nyOM1Av8cqr1vwFEPuuHdaCjcx4OJeIwftciMQxnGd9+F Pu74HBwA6PtjPN9XusM3aSKqmnxUa0um9wy+w= Received: by 10.91.91.8 with SMTP id t8mr118348agl.46.1270755700810; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:41:40 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.213.2.77 with SMTP id 13ls1182586ebi.0.p; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.42.8 with SMTP id q8mr52477ebe.14.1270755699213; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.42.8 with SMTP id q8mr52476ebe.14.1270755699189; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no (sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no [129.241.210.67]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 17si25548ewy.11.2010.04.08.12.41.38; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of arj@nvg.ntnu.no designates 129.241.210.67 as permitted sender) client-ip=129.241.210.67; Received: from hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (unknown [IPv6:2001:700:300:2000:2a0:c9ff:feab:76e2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id E329E9479B for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2010 21:41:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (8.13.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id o38JfTRa013981 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2010 21:41:29 +0200 Received: (from arj@localhost) by hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (8.13.8/8.13.1/Submit) id o38JfR1s013980 for lojban@googlegroups.com; Thu, 8 Apr 2010 21:41:27 +0200 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 21:41:27 +0200 From: Arnt Richard Johansen To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: [lojban] Dot-side and gadri (was: Essay on the future of Lojban, with a simple poll for the community.) Message-ID: <20100408194126.GP3000@nvg.org> References: <4BBC3CE4.6080803@lojban.org> <4BBDECA2.5000500@lojban.org> <4BBE0713.6030903@lojban.org> <20100408175114.GF11541@digitalkingdom.org> <518904.92039.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <518904.92039.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-NVG-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NVG-MailScanner: Not scanned: please contact your Internet E-Mail Service Provider for details X-MailScanner-From: arj@nvg.ntnu.no X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of arj@nvg.ntnu.no designates 129.241.210.67 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=arj@nvg.ntnu.no X-Original-Sender: arj@nvg.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/c67f210addc06a0c X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/a53a3908c5b80a6a Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 08, 2010 at 12:21:46PM -0700, John E Clifford wrote: >=20 > For newbies and oldbies with failing midterm memories (I'm pretty good on= problems in Loglan in 1977), could some one review what dot whatsis is It is a solution to a problem that has best been described in an essay by M= ark Shoulson on the wiki: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=3DThe%20Case%20Against%20LA Basically, proficient Lojban speakers have proven unable to prevent the sli= p-up where the strings =93la=94 or =93doi=94 accidentally appear in nonce n= ames. We call the variant of Lojban with all cmevla delimited with pauses on both= sides =93dot side=94, in a reference to Star Wars. > and what (aside from 'lo') is wrong (or was) with gadris. Well, AFAIK the only serious problem with the Lojban gadri system as descri= bed in CLL is that it did not allow for intensional descriptions, or non-di= stributive plurals. The majority of people who voted on the gadri section i= n BPFK were of the opinion that Lojban couldn't remain without any kind of = expressing intensional descriptions, so =93lo=94 was pressed into service a= s an article with unspecified intensionality/extensionality. The pre-publication drafts of the book =93Plural Predication=94 by Thomas M= cKay was highly influential in this solution. (http://www.amazon.com/Plural= -Predication-Thomas-McKay/dp/0199278148/) --=20 Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/ Yxskaftbud, ge v=E5r wczonm=F6 iqhj=E4lp. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.