From lojban+bncCInbwevEGxCB1_ndBBoEFvRhwg@googlegroups.com Thu Apr 08 16:49:47 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O01Ti-0005gg-2n for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 16:49:46 -0700 Received: by pvb32 with SMTP id 32sf704485pvb.16 for ; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 16:49:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:x-mathnet-spam-score :x-rcvd-authsender:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:message-id :references:user-agent:mime-version :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=UFBUc6EHBfY+IbQTh+WF/+HNAJBoSglkEON528G4d7Y=; b=nAe94TscrZJ1pmK8TF2NumABUeyJG8+DWhXiWBBnpYr/s4E14O2o3OOEs2VKxNZK5K T1Vv2vnddEkQxQRtC7hXzQjL0iEACjg1URDJSOk1LpiYcMNVUgxSO77sQ75a6I4k7Yjv VoDbBrSxxXVgRMZTZsMo5R+Pwvitx5R3YdoSM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-mathnet-spam-score:x-rcvd-authsender :date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references:user-agent :mime-version:x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=JsqFeZjHvOZEY/vgKSJkNiCIs9nMwMK/pqJsMBvu8pukWfvkCzSWFg3t7hGe5gvFkt APBCxImmqXNqfer38KoidjzmMMl+GoVYs+aYU+URowYF7znIxENp5CkOPgN0taDriykP zCeLu787zPQfWqDKhXjQ8DgdxNoXlVvuFSJZ0= Received: by 10.141.22.14 with SMTP id z14mr103651rvi.20.1270770561247; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 16:49:21 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.141.187.12 with SMTP id o12ls369025rvp.0.p; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 16:49:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.124.2 with SMTP id b2mr144352rvn.12.1270770560171; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 16:49:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.124.13 with SMTP id b13mr141504rvn.23.1270770257347; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 16:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.124.13 with SMTP id b13mr141503rvn.23.1270770257322; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 16:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sumac.math.ucla.edu (sumac.math.ucla.edu [128.97.4.21]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 18si117376pzk.2.2010.04.08.16.44.17; Thu, 08 Apr 2010 16:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of jimc@math.ucla.edu designates 128.97.4.21 as permitted sender) client-ip=128.97.4.21; Received: by sumac.math.ucla.edu (Postfix, from userid 1886) id E3D2441C92; Thu, 8 Apr 2010 16:44:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Mathnet-Spam-Score: 1.5/5.0 X-Rcvd-AuthSender: from xena.cft.ca.us (pool-71-119-248-235.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.119.248.235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jimc@math.ucla.edu) by sumac.math.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3E7D141C90 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2010 16:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 16:44:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Carter To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] [lojban-announcements] Essay on the future of Lojban, with a simple poll for the community. In-Reply-To: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> Message-ID: References: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LNX 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of jimc@math.ucla.edu designates 128.97.4.21 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jimc@math.ucla.edu X-Original-Sender: jimc@math.ucla.edu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Mon, 5 Apr 2010, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > http://teddyb.org/robin/tiki-index.php?page=Lojban%3A+You're+Doing+It+Wrong Very good essay. Think French -- a long time ago Lojban Central described its function to be like the French Academy, which speaks authoritatively about how the language is defined (despite impure speakers de l'etranger debasing it). Because Lojban is a "logical language" it even more needs such an authoritative voice, and Lojban Central should return to that role. "Let usage decide" is fine for a natural language with no pretense of being designed, but abdicating the design role -- "a consistent failure to govern", quoted from the political sphere -- serves our language poorly. > (2) agree/disagree answer to the following question, after you've read > (as much as you wish to) of the essay: > > I would like Lojban to remain as close as it possibly can to its > current state, regardless of whether I or a group of experienced > Lojbanists see that improvements could be made. Disagree. If an area needs improvement we ought to improve it, and sometimes the change cannot be guaranteed to be backward-compatible in all cases. On the other hand, Lojbanists' investment in the language is a very valuable resource not to be wasted, and wholesale revisions are not welcome. The revision from Loglan to Lojban was essential for political reasons, but I hope we won't see anything like that again. James F. Carter Voice 310 825 2897 FAX 310 206 6673 UCLA-Mathnet; 6115 MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA, USA 90095-1555 Email: jimc@math.ucla.edu http://www.math.ucla.edu/~jimc (q.v. for PGP key) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.