From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhCm_vzdBBoE5IY_XQ@googlegroups.com Fri Apr 09 07:53:01 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O0FZn-0007lz-AN for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 07:53:00 -0700 Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5sf1801089gyd.16 for ; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 07:52:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=PQzD/y39wjuvlEZ2JXr+OOKf3f5RjXhf8hojpy0aluc=; b=wAmGZI+TughEzqEYOn/uM10hKWZFkAn9xwHe5jywrKnsHKeHCAX6Xr6LwLQBjD+B+d F39dx8k/eVOeX8/5iOKJ/6Y0XiWGgoyIU4yop6/74nTR1rdWlRJpnmbEx7TUPNitP8hE lxV0L+UCX6cqliWLLTU0k5O/1GxCsTnytj/Wc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=m9y4ggbxLMD+CiRCahnsB+SpEBMOG/I3geVJALiETdQ+2KtuvBUIeTWsziheUzef0/ VPnz54zATAF6jnWwi4Uqh3tdaPtcxdVVibQtt32PoxJauIFeYbB2FnX/eTWibwBhs73O 8Mq0ibbz5Hqlj+TiRzJvtZhF3OhzF9fsyIPkQ= Received: by 10.91.203.22 with SMTP id f22mr58008agq.29.1270824742719; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 07:52:22 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.32.206 with SMTP id e14ls290528bkd.2.p; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 07:52:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.140.13 with SMTP id g13mr15524bku.0.1270824740066; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 07:52:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.140.13 with SMTP id g13mr15523bku.0.1270824739990; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 07:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f46.google.com (mail-ww0-f46.google.com [74.125.82.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id h3si1504266bke.0.2010.04.09.07.52.18; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 07:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.46 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.46; Received: by mail-ww0-f46.google.com with SMTP id 17so854332wwi.33 for ; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 07:52:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.30.146 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Apr 2010 07:52:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201004082332.50387.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <4BBE188B.8070807@lojban.org> <20100409014708.GB11541@digitalkingdom.org> <201004082332.50387.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 08:52:18 -0600 Received: by 10.216.88.4 with SMTP id z4mr87250wee.121.1270824738735; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 07:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Response ro Robin's "Essay on the future of Lojban" From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/33d26e8385fed297 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/ecbadf7e96d16457 Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d99efa1fc9ab0483cef186 --0016e6d99efa1fc9ab0483cef186 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Thursday 08 April 2010 21:47:09 Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > One place where we differ is that I no longer think usage should > > decide *ever*. Unless the BPFK becomes totally controlled by a pack > > of drooling morons, of course usage will be acknowledged and > > respected, and the BPFK may *choose* to promote usage to the status > > of officialness, but we should not let the language drift via usage. > > It should be well specified. > > What will happen once there is a critical mass of verclijbo? > > > I also don't think that describing the lanugage is what we > > should be doing. We should be *declaring* the language. > > Does this include declaring the meaning of lujvo and fu'ivla? > I expect that lujvo and fu'ivla are exempt from this, except in cases of mass usage. For example, if ro jbopre use gerzda to mean "dog house", then it is possible that that meaning will be declared. > > > I disagree. You can have a large, popular language without it being > > subject to random, unfettered linguistic; see, for example, French. > > Twenty years ago the AF declared an orthographic reform. (The way I found > out > about it was seeing the word "cig=FCe" (hemlock (umbellifer), new spellin= g) > in > Wiktionary.) Some parts of the reform I agree with ("cigu=EB" looks stran= ge > with the dieresis on the silent letter), some I don't ("co=FBt" (cost) sh= ould > retain the circumflex because it represents a lost "s"). Can we have some > Lojbanists accepting some, but not all, of the rulings of the BPFK? > > Pierre > -- > Don't buy a French car in Holland. It may be a citroen. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --0016e6d99efa1fc9ab0483cef186 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu= > wrote:
On Thursday 08 April 2010 21:47:09 Robin Lee Powell wrote= :
> One place where we differ is that I no longer think usage should
> decide *ever*. =A0Unless the BPFK becomes totally controlled by a pack=
> of drooling morons, of course usage will be acknowledged and
> respected, and the BPFK may *choose* to promote usage to the status > of officialness, but we should not let the language drift via usage. > It should be well specified.

What will happen once there is a critical mass of verclijbo?

> I also don't think that describing the lanugage is what we
> should be doing. =A0We should be *declaring* the language.

Does this include declaring the meaning of lujvo and fu'ivla?
=

I expect that lujvo and fu'ivla are exempt from t= his, except in cases of mass usage. For example, if ro jbopre use gerzda to= mean "dog house", then it is possible that that meaning will be = declared.

> I disagree. =A0You can have a large, popular language without it being=
> subject to random, unfettered linguistic; see, for example, French.
Twenty years ago the AF declared an orthographic reform. (The way I f= ound out
about it was seeing the word "cig=FCe" (hemlock (umbellifer), new= spelling) in
Wiktionary.) Some parts of the reform I agree with ("cigu=EB" loo= ks strange
with the dieresis on the silent letter), some I don't ("co=FBt&quo= t; (cost) should
retain the circumflex because it represents a lost "s"). Can we h= ave some
Lojbanists accepting some, but not all, of the rulings of the BPFK?

Pierre
--
Don't buy a French car in Holland. It may be a citroen.

--
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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
=

--
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