From lojban+bncCJ2w4Zy_AhDOyf3dBBoEtJFp8A@googlegroups.com Fri Apr 09 10:33:33 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O0I56-0002jL-5i for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:33:32 -0700 Received: by vws5 with SMTP id 5sf3127067vws.16 for ; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:33:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:received:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=cV/sPDy4meL02X55+pQHN8xkQgToBFwohM9g2EWCGfs=; b=FwzYkOezoMxRCV9R/a80l33kxSZYvjAjr9jWbhkkJguz7b+8SQ385kdleDvplJHqeX PN97ipuEXhMOdDzRpDfZ4aQi+F6LPP89CvFsentdi+KFMx8tSzyKx7puIFW/7dEAWBZA e2KZ7wZyiyupMIDNRKhic3fXrKO4z1fPLu+Ng= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=eS7WfcbmoA9PMTin7BNhA4mDGMaoSxdAUjgBwtrKqJGnTlzAMH4oO4aCwxXaxxrx41 GCxaE7iHhD0kn7yGGGRWqqCVjLltYJliezHleojps2yEDCHLsILPFMFPmXWRXZvRxfzQ b3X7X79P/QXxQtwZbrTnVfJJdTJTSEV02WLsY= Received: by 10.220.109.39 with SMTP id h39mr35362vcp.12.1270834382666; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:33:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.47.17 with SMTP id l17ls178656vcf.5.p; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.4.37 with SMTP id 37mr103212vcp.16.1270834380401; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.4.37 with SMTP id 37mr103211vcp.16.1270834380370; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f189.google.com (mail-yw0-f189.google.com [209.85.211.189]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 29si3663583vws.2.2010.04.09.10.32.59; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of suomichris@gmail.com designates 209.85.211.189 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.211.189; Received: by ywh27 with SMTP id 27so515871ywh.20 for ; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:32:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.5.20 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Apr 2010 10:32:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20100409002127.GA11541@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20100405210225.GW6084@digitalkingdom.org> <4BBC3CE4.6080803@lojban.org> <4BBDECA2.5000500@lojban.org> <4BBE0713.6030903@lojban.org> <20100409002127.GA11541@digitalkingdom.org> From: Christopher Doty Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 10:32:38 -0700 Received: by 10.101.136.33 with SMTP id o33mr441338ann.63.1270834379014; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [lojban-announcements] Essay on the future of Lojban, with a simple poll for the community. To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of suomichris@gmail.com designates 209.85.211.189 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=suomichris@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: suomichris@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/c67f210addc06a0c X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/3b19bf4940eef1eb Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636d3496abac1c70483d12fa2 --001636d3496abac1c70483d12fa2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 17:21, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > Acutally, no, I meant exactly what I said: Lojban was formed to test > the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, and while that's largely irrelevant to > me, it *is* important to me, and many other people, that Lojban is > not like any natural languages in a lot of respects. Makes it all > mind-stretching and stuff. This is an interesting issue, I think, because I see the idea of "mind-bending stuff," while certainly very cool, to be diametrically opposed to any hope of having Lojban widely adopted as an international/auxiliary/talking-to-computers/whatever language--there are plenty of things that natural languages do which are plenty mind-bending to speakers of English, but they don't violate general principles of what languages do and what they don't do, while Lojban does in any number of respects. If Lojban wants to be mind-bending, awesome. If it wants to be a language which is logical and consistent, and thus primed to make in-roads in being widely used, also awesome. But it can't do both of those things. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --001636d3496abac1c70483d12fa2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 17:21, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>= ; wrote:

Acutally, no, I meant exactly what I said: Lojban was formed to test<= br> the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, and while that's largely irrelevant to
me, it *is* important to me, and many other people, that Lojban is
not like any natural languages in a lot of respects. =A0Makes it all
mind-stretching and stuff.

This is an inter= esting issue, I think, because I see the idea of "mind-bending stuff,&= quot; while certainly very cool, to be diametrically opposed to any hope of= having Lojban widely adopted as an international/auxiliary/talking-to-comp= uters/whatever language--there are plenty of things that natural languages = do which are plenty mind-bending to speakers of English, but they don't= violate general principles of what languages do and what they don't do= , while Lojban does in any number of respects.

If Lojban wants to be mind-bending, awesome. If it want= s to be a language which is logical and consistent, and thus primed to make= in-roads in being widely used, also awesome. =A0But it can't do both o= f those things.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--001636d3496abac1c70483d12fa2--