From lojban+bncCJ2w4Zy_AhCSy_3dBBoEi3t4MA@googlegroups.com Fri Apr 09 10:36:46 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O0I8G-0002wD-Co for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:36:46 -0700 Received: by vws5 with SMTP id 5sf3129239vws.16 for ; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:36:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to :references:from:date:received:message-id:subject:to :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe :content-type; bh=luJUkD2j6ERloh+B2qU8PaC6+fzDtl8m0e11TxaaPwE=; b=hoi0ZjCCGo0eeR1LM00l6npO/CivgQgjXsiEiSDo+xrVrmvnivKs1P3Qpgc2nkmUUS Uyf1BxVOtgID6WDaqKThvUkNCH1jQD80cK6l1wU7cudluO2d3/XndtpGSqlACB9BKy2J HgWxuLft0MD7v7c8YS6BCe8AukdpFfm272KMM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:x-thread-url:x-message-url:sender :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=EuwvA+3tX0L1vP2crMgFp7h8TLJ20DFlytZHiihYz4Y+oOv2NRax0IeObMTZsax8bP lSZFdjPUAl4WHswFlp1req5h8xMO9FPu8DlVfocUa5L/rY4+fNAXzI7UY8N9xKPVsCX3 huWORiKVxbsjGWmI68uVSZktUq8/bccSDXydQ= Received: by 10.220.89.89 with SMTP id d25mr35843vcm.36.1270834578972; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:36:18 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.47.17 with SMTP id l17ls179326vcf.5.p; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:36:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.168.83 with SMTP id t19mr104321vcy.10.1270834577646; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:36:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.168.83 with SMTP id t19mr104319vcy.10.1270834577598; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:36:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw0-f45.google.com (mail-gw0-f45.google.com [74.125.83.45]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 31si3662561vws.4.2010.04.09.10.36.16; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of suomichris@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.45 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.45; Received: by mail-gw0-f45.google.com with SMTP id a18so1728522gwa.32 for ; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:36:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.5.20 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Apr 2010 10:35:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4BBF505B.2050705@gmail.com> References: <4BBF505B.2050705@gmail.com> From: Christopher Doty Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 10:35:56 -0700 Received: by 10.101.3.35 with SMTP id f35mr426193ani.129.1270834576419; Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Cultural fu'ivla: summary and list of the ISO generated ones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of suomichris@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.45 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=suomichris@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Original-Sender: suomichris@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: X-Thread-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/t/f66e2fdee6af20a6 X-Message-Url: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/2707861073bff2fb Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c597ed7eeac50483d13bb8 --001636c597ed7eeac50483d13bb8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am still absolutely, one hundred percent opposed to the idea of having 7,000 words with an identical first syllable for related concepts. This is not how language works, and it is not how the human brain works. Jorge brought up an example previously of things (something) like "Iceland, Swaziland, etc." to point out that words having the same morpheme in the same place wasn't an issue. But, again, this is demonstrably NOT how languages work. Having the same suffix on a word is not the same as having the same prefix. Having the same prefix will make the words VERY hard to learn. Chris On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 09:05, Leo Molas wrote: > I did a list with the 3 ISO generated fu'ivla that where proposed: > countries (ISO 3166), languages (ISO 639-3) and currencies (ISO 4217). > > The script also generates a jbovlaste-like definitions, separated with > ';', so I created a table (like .csc), and upload it to google docs. (If > you are not confortable using it, you can download the file in several > different formats.) I did this because the idea is to mass upload them; > I asked Robin if he can do that, and he only needed that the files had > that format. > > My idea is to discuss now if there is something wrong with the > definitions. You can change little things if you feel it, and if you > want to change something in all the definitions, tell me and I'll change > it in the script. Those files are going to be the ones I give Robin to > upload to jbovlaste. > > The columns are: > > - valsi > - definition > - Prefix (I don't know if this should go there.) > - gloss word (this can be changed) > - in the sense of (this too) > > The last points are where I feel insecure. I can also make a column with > "comments", telling that this are ISO generated or whatever... and can > also have a link to other word meaning the same (like mergu'e in > gugde'usu). > > The files are: > > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=3D0Ai4mbIPr2PUwdENVckVaOTJLbVdGVE5= SeGJ0MTBTbGc&hl=3Den > : countries (247 fu'ivla) and currencies (172) > > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=3D0Ai4mbIPr2PUwdGNYUFhrdmV1cmpLeVV= QZkNSU3dBYUE&hl=3Den > : languages part 1 (from =EF=BB=BFbanga'a'a to banlukusu, 3687 fu'ivla) > > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=3D0Ai4mbIPr2PUwdC1ENjlQTmZ1ZjlidFA= wWDdvZDBUUWc&hl=3Den > : languages part 2 (from banlukutu to banzuzuju, 4232 fu'ivla) > > That gives us a total of 8338 fu'ivla .uesai > > I know it's a really huge number, but this may be really useful .ui > > mu'o mi'e .leos. > > > -- > My lojban journal: http://learninglojban.wordpress.com > My personal blog: http://leomolas.tumblr.com > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --001636c597ed7eeac50483d13bb8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am still absolutely, one hundred percent opposed to the idea of having 7,= 000 words with an identical first syllable for related concepts. =C2=A0This= is not how language works, and it is not how the human brain works.
Jorge brought up an example previously of things (something) lik= e "Iceland, Swaziland, etc." to point out that words having the s= ame morpheme in the same place wasn't an issue. =C2=A0But, again, this = is demonstrably NOT how languages work. =C2=A0Having the same suffix on a w= ord is not the same as having the same prefix. =C2=A0Having the same prefix= will make the words VERY hard to learn.

Chris

On Fri, Apr 9, = 2010 at 09:05, Leo Molas <leos.molas@gmail.com> wrote:
I did a list with the 3 ISO generated fu'ivla that where proposed:
countries (ISO 3166), languages (ISO 639-3) and currencies (ISO 4217).

The script also generates a jbovlaste-like definitions, separated with
';', so I created a table (like .csc), and upload it to google docs= . (If
you are not confortable using it, you can download the file in several
different formats.) I did this because the idea is to mass upload them;
I asked Robin if he can do that, and he only needed that the files had
that format.

My idea is to discuss now if there is something wrong with the
definitions. You can change little things if you feel it, and if you
want to change something in all the definitions, tell me and I'll chang= e
it in the script. Those files are going to be the ones I give Robin to
upload to jbovlaste.

The columns are:

- valsi
- definition
- Prefix (I don't know if this should go there.)
- gloss word (this can be changed)
- in the sense of (this too)

The last points are where I feel insecure. I can also make a column with "comments", telling that this are ISO generated or whatever... an= d can
also have a link to other word meaning the same (like mergu'e in gugde&= #39;usu).

The files are:

http://spreadsheets.go= ogle.com/ccc?key=3D0Ai4mbIPr2PUwdENVckVaOTJLbVdGVE5SeGJ0MTBTbGc&hl=3Den=
: countries (247 fu'ivla) and currencies (172)

http://spreadsheets.go= ogle.com/ccc?key=3D0Ai4mbIPr2PUwdGNYUFhrdmV1cmpLeVVQZkNSU3dBYUE&hl=3Den=
: languages part 1 (from =EF=BB=BFbanga'a'a to banlukusu, 3687 fu&#= 39;ivla)

http://spreadsheets.go= ogle.com/ccc?key=3D0Ai4mbIPr2PUwdC1ENjlQTmZ1ZjlidFAwWDdvZDBUUWc&hl=3Den=
: languages part 2 (from banlukutu to banzuzuju, 4232 fu'ivla)

That gives us a total of 8338 fu'ivla .uesai

I know it's a really huge number, but this may be really useful .ui

mu'o mi'e .leos.


--
My lojban journal: http://learninglojban.wordpress.com
My personal blog: = http://leomolas.tumblr.com


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